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Swift: Muslim workers who walked off job haven’t been fired

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By The Associated Press

Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 06:25:47 pm CDT

GRAND ISLAND — Workers who walked off the job at a Grand Island packing plant in a dispute over Muslim prayer time have not been fired, a company spokeswoman said.

But the president of the local United Food and Commercial Workers Union said Thursday that changing the breaks might not be feasible for other workers in the JBS Swift & Co. meatpacking plant.

“I don’t know that I can agree to that because I have 1,700 other people to worry about,’’ said Dan Hoppes, Local 22 union president. “I have to look and see what they’ve got in mind.’’

In a statement, Swift said company management met with union leadership and local Muslim leaders to address the timing of the second-shift lunch break.

“Our hope is that we can strike a balance between a reasonable accommodation of their requests and our operational requirements,’’ according to the statement.

About 500 Swift workers, all Muslim and mostly of Somali background, walked off the job Monday afternoon. The workers said they haven’t been allowed to pray during their holiest month, Ramadan, which occurs in September this year.

One woman said she was kicked by a supervisor when she attempted to pray. Another woman said she was followed into the bathroom by a supervisor when she attempted to pray there.

More than 100 workers at a Greeley, Colo., Swift plant were fired last week because the company said they walked away from work before their shifts ended.

The workers blamed the company’s refusal to allow their breaks to coincide with sunset so they could pray.

Swift, which was purchased by Brazil’s JBS SA in March, has had problems with Muslim workers at the Grand Island plant in the past. Dozens of workers from Somalia quit their jobs last year because they said they weren’t allowed to pray at sunset. They eventually returned to work.


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Tim wrote on September 15, 2008 9:26 pm:
" My work does not give me time to pray at work on company time so if you don't like it, quit! "
See Ya wrote on September 15, 2008 9:29 pm:
" Freedom of religion doesnt mean an employer is required to give you time to pray. If they choose to do so, great. If not, then go work somewhere else. That's the beauty of a free nation "
Tim wrote on September 15, 2008 9:33 pm:
" So go find a job that fits your religion. Since when do you get a job then force the employer to fit your schedule?! "
Tiny Tim wrote on September 15, 2008 9:47 pm:
" How many of you get Christmas off? Quit being so small minded and show some tolerance of others. "
jeff wrote on September 15, 2008 9:48 pm:
" These comments are disturbing...although very unsurprising. Ramadan is like Christmas to Christians. Imagine if you were in Tehran, and assume for a second they are like other countries who recognize and respect the aspects of other religions. Imagine on Christmas morning they wouldn't allow you to go to the bathroom, which probably is a much better action than to not allow Muslims to pray during Ramadan, to Muslims anyway. How would you Christians, including myself, feel? Christians are suppose to "love thy neighbors", aren't they? Would it really hurt anyone,in the long run, if a group of people desire to pray a few times a year, maybe, even a few times a month? Or is this just flat out bigotry and racism at its best? Come on people. There just isn't enough time in this world to worry about all of this stuff! "
whatever wrote on September 15, 2008 9:58 pm:
" I hope the Muslims win any lawsuit they file. As a practicing Christian I would welcome a day off or a time to pray for my Christian beliefs. I think many Christians have sacrificed too much for the sake of capitalism. It's time to retake our religion and culture back. And way past time for employers to respect our religious beliefs. Honestly a few days off a year and few minutes a day to pray isn't much to ask. Seriously if things are so bad we can't afford that then what in the world are we working for. I thought business existed to serve people, not the existance of people to serve business. Yeah, I've taken a 180 on this particular issue. The Muslims have it dead on as they respect their religion by and large much more so than the average self proclaimed Christian. I want my America back, not the America some of these posters "serve" instead of their God. "
Jenn wrote on September 15, 2008 10:00 pm:
" So you don't mind working on Christmas or Easter Sunday? "
hvac farmer wrote on September 15, 2008 10:11 pm:
" Our mega-corporate giant packing plant bosses have a perfect right to kick, fire, or even follow women mere employeess into the bathroom. Anything less would be seen as kind of human, and therefore weak. All hail the corporation! Primitive Cultural traditions must backseat to needs of the Kill floor. "
Dave wrote on September 15, 2008 10:18 pm:
" Give them time to pray at Sunset! What's the big deal? They're going to pray; I'd rather employ people committed enough in their religion to ask for a break to pray than who'll sit and gossip and eat artery-clogging donuts at break. Sound like good employees to me! "
you know..... wrote on September 15, 2008 10:23 pm:
" good for them and shame on the rest of you. "
Christianpastor wrote on September 15, 2008 10:26 pm:
" Let's try looking at this another way: if we, as Christians, were not allowed Christmas off to celebrate with our families, this would be a big issue. The Muslim holiday of Ramadan is incredibly important, and we should be allowing them this important time of prayer. If we're truly tolerant of all religious traditions then we need to stop sounding like close-minded and biased people. Nebraskans can do better! Plus, it sounds like some of the employers were intentionally harassing (kicking) the workers. That's not right under any conditions. "
seriously wrote on September 15, 2008 10:30 pm:
" i'm sure if these workers were christians, their bosses (and you good citizens commenting) would have no problem letting them take a five minute break to pray at sunset. i'm an atheist and i would have no problem if a co-worker (muslim, christian or otherwise) needed to take time away from everyone else to do this in private. as long as you aren't involving me, do as you wish. THAT is the beauty of a free nation. and, regardless if they were given the time or not, a male following a woman into the bathroom or a supervisor kicking an employee is absolutely not acceptable and i would have walked off the job as well. why is it so hard to learn a little tolerance? "
Christians have had the same problem wrote on September 15, 2008 10:42 pm:
" The Seventh Day Adventist church (a Christian religion, which originated in America) believes in keeping the biblical Sabbath, which is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. One of the elements of Sabbath keeping is to not work. The following is a summary of a case that was decided in January of this year:

---The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a former driver, Todd Sturgill, for United Parcel Service will get his job back.
The case originated from a December 2004 incident in which Sturgill returned from his delivery route to the UPS center with 35 undelivered packages before going home on a Friday night, the beginning of the Biblical Sabbath. He was soon fired for what UPS called "job abandonment."
Though, as the court acknowledged, Sturgill had previously sought accommodation for his Sabbath-keeping beliefs, managers at the firm that day took no steps to enable him to complete his work before sundown.

So you see, it is not just those of the Muslim faith who require some accommodation in their job to practice religious beliefs which are important to them. More importantly, the United States Justice system has decided that employers must give some reasonable accommodation to allow a person to practice their religion. "
Time warp wrote on September 15, 2008 11:00 pm:
" One more example of the insanity of religion. Trying to fit rituals from the dark ages into modern times. "
Edmond wrote on September 15, 2008 11:01 pm:
" Before hiring religious workers, employers need to make sure they communicate company policies to them. If they want to pray at certain time, they should be allowed to pray without pay (clock out or something). It's not fair to do your own things at company cost. Both sides need to respect one another & lets be fair for both sides. Please...... no kicking! Be civilized. Employees are not soccer balls. "
JPC wrote on September 15, 2008 11:19 pm:
" If this business gives consessions to people of other religions, then they should let their Muslim workers pray. Our Muslim brothers & sisters should not be treated any diffrent than you would want to be treated. "
Michael wrote on September 15, 2008 11:33 pm:
" Work is for work, your personal time is for religon. "
Hippo Criticus wrote on September 15, 2008 11:36 pm:
" Yep, the American workplace can't be an environment where we give people time off for any sort of Religous activity. Thats why American's don't get time off for Christmas, or Christmas Eve. Or if they must work they don't get paid at sb5nuHoliday rates, just straight time. Thats why when Good Friday and Easter Sunday roll around its just another day of the week here in the Heartland. Yep, don't give them dang Muslims any sort of special treatment (that's only for Christians.) "
Nick wrote on September 15, 2008 11:52 pm:
" My company gives me time off for religious holidays and days of worship. My company gives me time to pray, but I do not do shift work or work on a line that has clearly defined schedules. It would be good business practice for a company to be considerate of its employees, and it is perfectly acceptable for employees to make reasonable requests for breaks to be arranged to coincide with religious obligations. However, a company is perfectly within its rights to determine that those requests are not feasible. I hope that Swift has given consideration to these requests, and respect the right of workers to move on if these requests cannot be feasibly accommodated. When these types of conflict occur it, it is important that business leadership and labor alike show civility and respect. I hope that pot-stirrers on either side do not feel the need to unnecessarily interject cultural or religious disagreements simply for the sake of polarizing. When possible feasible solutions might exist, it does no good to pass them by simply based on resistance to change or fear of the unfamiliar. "
Alex wrote on September 16, 2008 12:20 am:
" This has nothing to do with scheduling. Entire days off are handed out for Christian and Jewish holidays, they're asking only for a little time to pray. Besides, none of that demand justifies harassing employees in the bathrooms or physically abusing them! "
Read It Again Girl wrote on September 16, 2008 12:21 am:
" She needs to read her Quran a little more closely! Islam does not require Muslims to pray at six specific times of the day, just that they pray six times per day, so they aren't actually required to do any of the six during a work shift. "
Freedom for religion wrote on September 16, 2008 1:45 am:
" As much as people in this column like to talk about freedom from religion, we are also guaranteed freedom to practice our religion. If we don't support the rights of one to practice his or her religion, we risk the right of losing our rights when we do want to practice our religion or just live our life. "
To Tim wrote on September 16, 2008 1:52 am:
" actually your job at least compensates you for your prayer time. most Christian religious holidays are paid or those days are off. In this country if you are of a faith other then Christian your out of luck unless your employer is empathetic. with respect to the prayers. if you have ever worked in a meat packing plant you would know it is brutal work and ALL the employees are used and discarded. This is why groups of people like the Hispanics, the Sudanese, the Vietnamese and the various folks from the middle east find their way to these jobs. Most people born in this country dont have the fortitude to do them. If they need to take their break at a time that allows them to follow their faith they should be allowed to do so. "
Galen wrote on September 16, 2008 1:59 am:
" Don't worry - some bleeding heart liberal will champion your cause and force the big, bad company to cow down to you..... "
Skeptic wrote on September 16, 2008 4:57 am:
" Who is the most in need? Meatpacking plants have a high turnover rate and often times hire illegal immigrants because they are desperate for workers. Maybe the plant should be more accommodating. "
Daniel wrote on September 16, 2008 6:01 am:
" If I were a Christain demonstrating my religious beliefs in violation of a companies rules then I'm sure I would be fired or thrown into the lion's den. "
Pat wrote on September 16, 2008 6:16 am:
" Give me a break you go to work to WORK not pray. Please quit and let those who want to work work. It sounds like these people are just trying to get some free money. "
Neighbor wrote on September 16, 2008 6:22 am:
" Hey folks, have you noticed how few jobs require people to work Sunday mornings? Think there might be a religious connection there? "
Cole wrote on September 16, 2008 6:34 am:
" The question is - what's reasonable? America has set up a system for blue-collar workers: forty hours or so, clock in and out, 15 or 30 minutes breaks every so many hours, lunch. In exchange workers are asked to do what needs to be done in a reasonably safe environment. If you look at history, there's no question that, left to their own devices, companies would exploit labor whenever possible - regardless of ethics - if it positively affected their bottom line. So, with the help of the government we've built some safeguards into the system to protect workers' safety and guarantee at least a minimum wage. This works. It's not perfect, but it works.

So, what do we do when someone's brain is held hostage by an Abrahamic, monotheistic cult and it's considered in some circles a violation of rights to keep him or her from following its arbitrary, silly rules? It goes back to whatever is reasonable.

Is it reasonable, in addition to all other concessions in the workplace, for people to be given significant time to drop everything and pray to something? The reasonable answer is no. Religion sucks enough life out of everything the way it is. If you have to practice this nonsense, keep it at home and in your tax-exempt house of worship.

If left unchecked, there's no question in my mind that Muslims and Southern Baptists would have this country spending the entire day on its knees. "
Joe wrote on September 16, 2008 6:41 am:
" I don't see why they should get special treatment just because they have to pray to the sun or whatever. I can't tell my boss that I don't want to work on Sundays just because I got to go to church. It's a pretty good excuse not to go to church though. It ain't my fault I have to work. "
strict wrote on September 16, 2008 7:02 am:
" Factories are very strict when it comes to production...probably not the place to stay off the line for too long! "
jb wrote on September 16, 2008 7:32 am:
" Don't bring up the Christmas card, over the years I have had to work Christmas many times, the company said we had to work so we worked. There is nothing in the freedom of religion part of the constitution that says a person cannot work on a religious day. They do have the right to any religion, they do not have the right to dictate to an employer "
Huh wrote on September 16, 2008 7:42 am:
" Christmas is one day a year, they want to pray every day. When you're on a production line, you can't shut down production to give a certain segment time to pray. They knew the rules when they accepted the job, now they're trying to make the company change for them. Don't do it. "
Amy wrote on September 16, 2008 7:48 am:
" I agree with both sides. If you don't like your job and it doesn't fit your lifestyle, go get a new one. But, most people get Christmas and Easter off, so they should probably get time on their holiday to pray, too.

This reaffirms my choice to be religiously apathetic or otherwise agnostic. Religion does nothing but tear the world apart. My life is better without it. You can have good judgment and character without following a God. "
the line wrote on September 16, 2008 8:09 am:
" This is the United States of America. Like it or not, we are a Christian nation. We do not observe Muslim holidays here. There are Christians in this country who have to work on Christmas Day. If they want to be in this country to work, there are probably certain sacrifices they will have to make. That's just the way the world works. "
Shelly L. wrote on September 16, 2008 8:14 am:
" If people would realize that there is NOTHING after death, we would ALL save a bunch of time with this praying nonsense. I've known plenty of people that believed in such dieties and gods such as jesus and many wiccans also that did not get time off(yes even a few minutes during their shift) to pray and DID have to work during a religious holiday. People just need to learn to suck it up and deal with it (maybe they should pray about it and ask their god how to deal with 'intolerant' bosses). "
to Jenn wrote on September 16, 2008 8:16 am:
" I don't relish working on Christmas or Easter, but as part of my job, I have too. I don't wine and complain, I just do it. Employees at hospitals and police/firemen/retail clerks all work those holidays too. That's just how it is. "
Dak wrote on September 16, 2008 8:21 am:
" Christian religion differs greatly from that of the Muslim religion. To see the comment "I don't get paid to pray for my religion..." is very racist and full of hatred towards a minority religious sect.

Grow some Tim and be a man, not a hater. "
Disappointed Christian wrote on September 16, 2008 8:22 am:
" Wow! I can't believe how many people side with the plant. How close minded can you be? I think it's been made clear by other posts that most Christians don't have to face such a dilemma. Also, if you're looking for excuses not to go to church, then church is probably a waste of your time, and you have no right to complain about being asked to work on Sunday.

I assume that many of those taking the anti-Muslim stance are right-wing Christians, so let me pose this question: If you go to work to WORK and not pray, then you go to school to LEARN and not pray, right? And if your pious children get in trouble for praying during some time other than recess, you'll help discipline them, right? Oh, a double-standard! I'm shocked! That's got to be a first. "
Alex wrote on September 16, 2008 8:25 am:
" Oh, and let's just remember how alcohol sales are banned until noon on Sundays in the city of Lincoln. Our state bends over backwards for Christian mores, but heaven forbid Muslims get a little prayer time. "
bob wrote on September 16, 2008 8:28 am:
" time to pray? i wish, its would be nice for all religeons... however I dont barely get time to go to the bathroom for mother nature when it calls. praying isnt a right, but I guess smoke breaks are.....
typical corporate america... "
HOLIDAYS wrote on September 16, 2008 8:29 am:
" Excuse me but not everyone gets christmas and other holidays off!! So your saying there are no police out on the streets on holidays?? So I guess hotels are closed on holidays?? O and I guess doctors and nurses are off on holidays?? Come on people get with reality here if you want more freedom at your job find one that offers that, there are plenty out there. "
Step Back Americans wrote on September 16, 2008 8:33 am:
" This isn't our problem, let the Brazilians and Somalians sort this out between themselves. It's none of our business. People complain when businesses leave America for foreign countries, people complain when foreign people are brought to America to work for lower wages, and now we see them complaining about how a foreign company interacts with their foreign laborers. There's no pleasing the Americans, they act like this is their country. Those days are over, now shut up and eat your gruel. "
Beaker wrote on September 16, 2008 8:38 am:
" Good luck finding jobs that will succomb to your pressure.

This is not comparable to Chirstmas. There are millions of people every year who are working on Chirstmas eve, Christmas morning, and Christamas day. Those that have it off and acutally use it to celebrate their choice of religion are an ever decreasing number.

I know that there are many businesses in this city alone that are open every day of the year. That comparisson is not valid. That day off is no more about chirstmas anymore, than just needing a day off. Most people aren't taking that day off to go to church or celebrate the birth of Jesus. They are spending it worried about what the rest think about the dinner that was prepared, what family blow up is going to happen, being depressed, worry what gifts they are going to get, who is going to feel left out and forgotten, etc, etc.

These people can demand the world, but in the end get nothing and potentially lose their jobs. As deplorable as Swift has been in some of its undocumented worker issues, I don't think this is. They can't give everyone everything and they shouldn't have to. They ultimately answer to the stockholder, not the employee. "
Mark wrote on September 16, 2008 8:41 am:
" This would be the equivalent of Christians using the 40 days of Lent to tell employers they need to be able to pray 6 times a day during those 40 days. Do you really think the packing plant or any employer would be accomodating to that---I highly doubt it. I'm sure those employees get 15 minute breaks and a lunch break so use that time to pray. "
Nina wrote on September 16, 2008 8:50 am:
" More than one way to view this. 1. Of course, their employer isn't bound to let them off the production line before quitting time to pray. However, following a woman into the restroom and kicking is asking for a lawsuit, which I hope they get. 2. I admire the Muslims putting their faith first - hope they don't get fed to the 'lions' such as were early Christians. Following one's beliefs even through barriers is admirable; however, one must be prepared to suffer the consequences the world puts in place. Their jobs might be that consequence. Ideally, an employer would accommodate their prayer life as feasible, but in a factory setting, this could be difficult or impossible. "
Unreal wrote on September 16, 2008 8:55 am:
" I cannot believe the ideals that come from this state and the readers of this paper. They are not asking to praying everyday, they are not praying to the sun, and they are not wasting company time to do something they believe in. Regardless of faith or background, who deserves to be treated like that. And for the writer that said to give up the jobs so someone else can do it...who? Not me, I am thankful that there are still people willing to work a job I would never consider. If they force everyone out then the jobs will just get outsourced just like all of the other American jobs.
It is unreal for me to think that we live in a society with people as narrow minded as many of you. For a country with a seperation of church and state we sure seem to have tolerance for the Christian movement, but for no one else.
They want to practice their religion and be true to their faith and they get kicked. I'm pretty sure that is illegal, you cannot abuse your employees.
How ridiculous for people to side with the company on this. Some day you will come across something that isn't formulated for the "WASPS" of the world and then please come back and comment about how it feels to be treated with such disregard of your feelings, your values, and your beliefs.
Wake up, this world is not full of white-bread american christians, its diverse full of hundreds and thousands of differents cultures and beliefs, read a book instead of watching NASCAR and CMT for once. "
Ryman wrote on September 16, 2008 8:58 am:
" I was always told by my mother that God doesn't care what you look like, dress like or even smell like as long as you pray. Why do people always think that they need to take time out to pray? Why can't people pray at work while on the production line, at a stop light, at lunch, walking to their car. If everyone would agree that there is one God for all of our religions it would make things easier. If you want to take extra time out to pray, fine, but you should have to clock out for it. If I want to get paid for time off at Christmas as so many people contend, I have to take vacation pay for it or it is unpaid. Same as for Thanksgiving, Easter, 4th of July and any other actual US holiday. It's fine to want to pray to God, but do it on your own time or do it while you are doing something else. If you truly believe in God, he/she will not care if you are at work, working or knelt down facing east. Traditions aside, God doesn't care as long as you are praying to him/her. And anyone who thinks differently than this is exactly what is wrong with organized religion - always telling people how to live their lives instead of helping them find their own way to a good life, one that they can feel good about. "
Sally wrote on September 16, 2008 9:07 am:
" When I work we were not allow to pray on company time. So why should they? And why should we provide a place for them at work? "
Jalengrma wrote on September 16, 2008 9:08 am:
" If the Muslims wish to take time to pray,let them ask for the day off. Maybe they could also pray during their breaks. They should get no special privileges. "
Ignignokt wrote on September 16, 2008 9:09 am:
" The comparisons to Christmas are not unexpected, but are, nonetheless, mistaken. A packing plant would have to shut down and restart their entire production line every day for the duration of Ramadan to accommodate the workers demands. With Christmas, there's one shutdown and one restart. The disruption and lost productivity from the multiple restarts costs the plant serious money, because they still have to pay all of the employees, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, for the duration of the disruption. And believe it or not, a lot of Christians work on Christmas and on Sundays. They may not like it, but they do it because their job demands it.

Yes, the Constitution grants citizens the right to practice their religion freely...but the Constitution is a document that grants freedom to the people that cannot be infringed upon by the GOVERNMENT. The Constitution is NOT a regulatory document for the private sector. "
as wrote on September 16, 2008 9:11 am:
" Having worked many Christmases, Easters & most other Christian holidays over the years, I can say - if you knew what it was when you took the job, then don't expect things to be different just for you. Go find another job.

Half of the problems with this country today stem from the fact that some out there think we need to change the fundamental bedrock to fit whatever the current population breakout is. For those who think the company should cave to the demands of the Muslim employees, I can't wait to see their reaction when it's their employer who is talking about switching Labor Day, or some other holiday that they get off for a Muslim one. "
Rager wrote on September 16, 2008 9:15 am:
" They have the complete freedom of religion that christians do. They can quit if they dont agree with that particular companies policies. The government has said NOTHING about them not being able to pray any time they want, which is what the constitution gives them based on freedom of religion. And they can go ahead and go where the heck they think can practice as they see fit. Tehran works for me if they so desire. No way Christians can practice freedom of religion in Iran, so let them live under the Tyranny of an Islamic nation. Then they will know how good the freedom they complain about truly is. "
I am a Christian wrote on September 16, 2008 9:21 am:
" I am a Christian and I work every Easter and Christmas. I make arrangements to celebrate those holidays in my own way. For instance, I think that Maunday Thursday is the right time to celebrate Easter. And I am happy to work Christmas because I have the 24th off. I am so lucky, because even tho I am an adult, we all know that the 24th is the day of great anticipaation.

What I am saying is that no matter what your religion, you can work around it and still celebrate your religion and still work.

God bless this wonderful country!! "
The real question wrote on September 16, 2008 9:24 am:
" Why didn't this come up at hiring? If you knew you could not maintain the schedule why not ask if exceptions could be made or not take the job. Many Nebraskans I meet, have a religion called Husker football which requires them to worship for 3-4 hours every saturday in the fall, many of them have told me of times that they were not allowed to have this day off from work and how much sorrow it caused them. "
simple wrote on September 16, 2008 9:35 am:
" Workers get breaks to do what they wish..some eat, some read, some chat, some pray... they can pray during their breaks, its that simple. "
right wrote on September 16, 2008 9:37 am:
" nebraska is a right to work state which mean an employer can fire works without cause. these people knew the requirements when they took the job. all the comparisons to christmas miss the point and dont actually support this issue. noone has mentioned that when one person on the line stops working everyone else stops as well. its call production and when you dont produce you dont make profits. oh my the big bad corporate profits word. its a free country and if your religious beliefs are such that you dont drink then you dont work in a bar. give them one more chance to work and if they walk off again fire their butts. apparently they havent heard we're in a recession and having a job is a good thing. "
christmas is a federal holiday wrote on September 16, 2008 9:45 am:
" Hello all you saying Ramadan is like Christmas. Ramadan is not a federal holiday, Christmas is. Many secular families celebrate Christmas, not in the religious manner that Christians do. There is no relation to this issue at all. Easter is the biggest Christian holiday but it is not a federal holiday, and your employer would not allow you time off during the day to pray on the company dime. "
jo wrote on September 16, 2008 9:48 am:
" In response to Dak : Why do we have to be haters because our opinions differ from yours? They can use their breaks, lunch time, here's an idea! Pray at home. Take vacation time. Religion is important but so is feeding the family. "growing some" isn't the issue. There are 500 people out there that would love to have a job. I work religeous holidays, but it doesn't stop me from practicing my religion. I say see Ya! "
they will lose wrote on September 16, 2008 9:50 am:
" To all of those who say don't we as christians get christmas off." I say ya and so do the muslim and if there Ramadan is close to christmas then when they are off for Christmas they can pray. Other wise they can quit and get different jobs. This is wrong if work has to allow work time for them to pray. When as christians we can't even have pray or the pledge of allegiance in our schools. "
heyfolks wrote on September 16, 2008 9:54 am:
" hey folks have you notice our calendar, laws, ethics, morals and country is based christian beliefs. "
Question wrote on September 16, 2008 10:03 am:
" So what kind of manufacturing and production work goes on in Muslim countries for successful companies? "
moderator wrote on September 16, 2008 10:19 am:
" We all have time off to observe other religions. I take time off to pray if I want to. We don't get good friday off. If you follow the muslim, they have to pray how many times a day. If we let everyone do that, our country will not progress. After thousands of years, middle east still fighting and woman don't have rights.... Wake up and smell the coffee. Moderate is OK but if we allow too much of it is extreme. We do not want extremist. I knew a muslim who told me he was too busy to fast. Nothing wrong with freedom of religion but don't impose your religion on someone else or force someone to accept it. Be reasonable and moderate. By the way, I am not christian or muslim. "
Frustrated wrote on September 16, 2008 10:22 am:
" This is absurd. They are not infringing on anyone else's rights. And while Nebraska can fire people for no reason what so ever, employers cannot abuse their employees for ever. Lets get off the idea of "well christians don't get this and christians don't get that" The idea that Christmas is a federal holiday is absurd anyway. Just because you live in the bible belt doesn't mean the whole of America has the same beliefs as you. Most Christian doctrine's do not call for prayers at certain times of the day, nor is prayer part of the requirment of your doctrine, much like confession is to catholics. Understand what you are talking about before you spew off about how you work on christmas and easter. The Muslim regligion requires prayer at a certain time of day during Ramadan. Respect it, I think that is all they are asking for respect and understanding. I must say I am glad I fit into the genuine American mold because I would hate to live her and be even a little different and be looked at under a microscope by ignorant, self rightoues raciest individuals. You are NO BETTER than anyone else. Realize it, stop putting people down for what they believe and how they live their life. "
Tim wrote on September 16, 2008 10:25 am:
" If I went to my employer and told them I was going to walk out if I didn't get Christmas off I would be laughed at and dismissed, It is time people took responsibility for their own actions and stopped whining about being victims. If the job doesn't fit your lifestyle MOVE ON! "
to heyfolks wrote on September 16, 2008 10:31 am:
" Umm you are not 100% correct. The US legal system is based upon Judeo-Christian philosophy not the religon. What you refer to would be an Islamic state where the legal system is not any different than the complete teachings of the religion. In this country you do not go to jail if you covet your neighbor's belongings. If this were a legal system based upon religon, you would. "
The Real Tim wrote on September 16, 2008 10:33 am:
" So when does a religion, any religion have the right to dictate to a business how it operates? I work for a company that works 24/7, 365 days a year so don't cry to me about christian holidays. When I took the job this was clear and I was informed that my religion and my job were SEPERATE and if I wanted the job they needed to remain so. What holidays you want to celebrate outside work with your families and friends are up to you just don't expect to beat the victim drum and have society bend to your every will. Last I heard societies run by any religions aren't the most fun places to live and forget freedoms. "
Amazed wrote on September 16, 2008 10:42 am:
" Regardless your religious beliefs, or lack there of, how about treating people with respect? Isn't that the basis for most religions? Isn't that the basis for what most people try to teach kids? I'm a christian but if a male boss followed my wife into a bathroom we are going to have words. If a boss kicked my wife we are going to have words. Take the religion out of the equation for a minute people and have a second look. Then put the religion back in and see where you stand. Such anger in all these comments. Children behave! "
j wrote on September 16, 2008 10:48 am:
" This situation seems entirely avoidable, why not allow a break period for the workers to coincide with their prayer time? The employer seems pretty intolerant and chosen a more practical solution. It is poor management. "
Dum wrote on September 16, 2008 10:52 am:
" All you haters should have a little respect and give them a few minutes to do their thing. Is it really that big of a deal? Maybe your boss should start kicking you at work! "
Ej wrote on September 16, 2008 11:04 am:
" This company does not owe these people anything. The work pace of the company isn't a surprise. Production work is fast paced . Why should the ccompany have to change its ways to fit after the hire. I have worked christmas, thanksgivings,birthdays etc. I didn't like it so i found another job. And don't tell me it is not an option for anyone- it is the individuals job to conform not societies job to make concessions for the individual. I truely believe america is a richer place because of the diversity but we all have a responsibility to conform to america not make america conform to us. "
Outside the Box wrote on September 16, 2008 11:06 am:
" I love the people who say "if they don't like it they should get another job". We're not talking about high paying office jobs with a lot of perks. This is tough factory work done by people who are likely living paycheck to paycheck. The fact that these companies frequently hire immigrants and illegals speaks to the quality of the work and the pay they offer.

Not being an expert on Muslim beliefs, it appears the management could shift breaks to accomodate 500 workers who are probably help management meet the production goals set by corporate. It's quite obvious that management thinks their employees aren't much more valuable than the meat they process. "
Tom wrote on September 16, 2008 11:46 am:
" Fire them and hire someone who wants to work.
To all you people who say Christians get Christmas off. That’s a bunch of bull! I have worked many Christmas while I was serving this country in the military as well as after. All Christmas is is another made up holiday to honor two made up entities. Santa and this all powerful entity in the sky. So again, get a clue and work, don’t want to do that fire them and replace them with someone who will. "
Quit Whining wrote on September 16, 2008 12:02 pm:
" Quit whining about religion. All of you try to deny everyone their religion is some shape or form. ALL of you are hypocrits in that way. Muslims in the US should be denied there right to celebrate Ramadon just like the Christians and Catholics are denied their right to Christmas. Celebrate in your home not in public. NOW SHUT UP ABOUT THIS TOPIC. "
MIKE wrote on September 16, 2008 12:15 pm:
" Biggoted, Pig headed, Ignorant, Stupid, Mindless and Racist, Are just a few of the words that can describe most of these comments. Angry, Dissapointed, Ashamed, Humiliated and Betrayed, Are just a few that describe how it makes me feel to be associated with this readership. "
Give me a break wrote on September 16, 2008 12:28 pm:
" Of those that are saying that "most people don't work Sundays" or "Only Christians get their holidays off" actually work (homemakers) or don't have a degree. MOST PEOPLE who don't have a degree and those who actually do physical labor, don't get this time off. If they do get it off (i.e. Construction workers) it is because of the weather. You holier than thou people need to fall flat on your faces so that you can experience what the backbone of America sees and feels everyday. If you want to Pray, Pray for Armaggedon, that is when humanity will learn its lesson "
OH Puh-lease. wrote on September 16, 2008 12:47 pm:
" I think it's pretty obvious that these aren't people that are trying to slack, or trying to get away with something. They don't think they're 'special', and I hardley think they believe they need special treatment. We bratty americans have no idea what their religious lives are like. None. So shut up, already. It's easy for you to say 'get another job'--when you know these people probably don't have a lot of options for work. Their employers are being jerks, and treating them like crap--and that's pretty obvious by reading the article, too. If you honestly support that, I am embarrassed to post on the same site as you. "
Uneducated Americans wrote on September 16, 2008 12:54 pm:
" Please go read the first few lines of the Treaty of Tripoli. The United States is not and has never been a Christian nation. No matter what you want to believe. "
Religion has its place wrote on September 16, 2008 1:01 pm:
" I don't force my beliefs or views upon those I work with, and vice versa. The great thing about the USA is we ARE a melting pot. But within our customs, traditions and beliefs, there has ALWAYS been the notion that we are united as one and continue our ethnic and personal traditions ON OUR OWN TIME. I'm a nurse, what would you do if I insisted on having Easter and Christmas off? Who would care for the sick. Work is work time. This IS the USA. Like it or leave it, we aren't changing for one group. "
Lindsay wrote on September 16, 2008 1:23 pm:
" Really, they aren't asking for more than having their breaks coincide at prayer time. Anyways, how do breaks work at packing plants...wouldn't there be other employees who are non-Muslim who could cover? I just get the feeling that Swift hasn't really been very sensitive to their employees.

Again, Christians sure get up in arms with Muslims asking for prayer time during work, but yet many demand kids should be able to pray at school. Double standard, no? "
rick wrote on September 16, 2008 1:40 pm:
" Yes it would be annoying to have to work on x mas or easter... but as a christian I still would not walk off just because I have to work on a holiday. "
please wrote on September 16, 2008 2:27 pm:
" Okay.. so they have a special day or time that THEY want to do something for THEm.. that's FINE.. do it on your own time.. ASK for the day off or plan according!! It's not a question of religon.. it's a question of standards and why rules should be bent for certain people.

Enough with the "junk" about working on holidays.. a holiday is ONLY a day.. which represents something.. To some people. .isn't MORE about how you spend every day?!? Some employees are lucky to have the day off.. others aren't given the option.. deal! "
change some words many of you would change your tune wrote on September 16, 2008 2:43 pm:
" If this article was about 500 LDS, southern baptist, or other right-wing christian group many of you that say the employer is out of bounds would be singing their praise. Seems rather racist to me that you only support a religion that is dominated by one skin color. In a production industry break time is set and all employees break generally at that time. You can't have a large segment break whenever they feel like it, becuase the entire line must stop. No those non-muslim workers cannot pick up the slack to accomodate it either. If you allow them to break for religous reasons whenever they want, next thing you will see foot baths and other religious icons appearing (don't say it won't happen, an airport in Michigan installed them to accomodate). Never in a million years would it be allowed to have a prayer room or Jews or Christians. "
Lydia wrote on September 16, 2008 3:30 pm:
" Wow! And here is the confirmation that we are still such a racist and hateful country. People fear what they do not know. First, Muslims pray at a certain time of day, Second, they are not to be feared, Third their God is the same as ours, just called something different because the language is different, Ramadan only happens once a year, for a month. They are not praying to "get out of work", and many religions fast, but in different ways. I'm not shocked but I am amazed. So many hateful negative comments. Each religion is different, yet unique, we all believe differently. Christians pray differently, as do Catholics, as do Muslims, as do Lutheran, etc. etc. It may have to do with ritual, but it doesn't matter. Is it really hurting you? I applaud them for standing up for their freedom of religion, and unfortunately they may lose their jobs, but the company will lose also. Tsk...tsk...tsk "
Yup wrote on September 16, 2008 5:45 pm:
" How come the people who say the Muslim workers should not be allowed to dictate to the company when they can have a break so they can pray are labeled racist and hateful. This is a production plant, where shifts are set, breaks are set. Sunset is not. How in the h e double hocky sticks is a plant expected to remain online in production when they change breaks every time sunset varies. Think about the rest of the people at the plant. They're expected to pick up the slack while the others pray. We're not racists or hateful, just common sense people that live in the blue collar world. "
Ferd wrote on September 16, 2008 5:49 pm:
" One key component of all of this is that the 500 Muslims represent only 20% or so of the workforce. This IS a production line type of plant and to have 80% of the workforce forced to take their breaks for the benefit of the remainder isn't probably going to fly. The only logical solution is to have the Muslims totally segregated so their division can shut down 100% as needed, but that would be totally wrong and likely illegal.
I don't know the Muslim laws, but they seem to be based on discipline. Is there no provision for practicing that discipline so it doesn't interfere with others? Apparently the strict Muslim dress code for women is flexible enough for the workplace. Just wondering... "
racist wrote on September 16, 2008 6:11 pm:
" Ok let me get this straight. This is suppsoted to be racist.

That means that

1. Requiring individuals to respect and obey the immigration laws of this country is racist despite the fact that this requirement applies to every nation on earth.
2. It is racist to require workers at Swift to adhere to the shift work that they agreed to upon initial employment despite the fact that all workers regardless of religious status are required to do so.
3. Not having programs specifically targeted at certain races is racist.
4. I am sure when Barrack Obama is not elected president that will be called racist depsite the fact that most of the country does not like some of his socialist policy plans.

Just want to make sure I have the racism list generated by the far left these days. "
Zeeb wrote on September 16, 2008 7:32 pm:
" I am a Christian and I work a job that requires 24hr a day 365 day a year coverage. So many years I work Christmas and many times I have worked Easter. I knew this was what was expected when I took the job and I accepted it. I've been doing it for 30 years. If I didn't like it I know where the door is. They should be know where the door is too and exercise the freedom to use it. "
-chet wrote on September 16, 2008 7:36 pm:
" You came to this country willingly. You do not dictate how we do things here.

End of story. "
another side wrote on September 16, 2008 8:39 pm:
" What about the companies that these people work for. is the whole plant supposed to shut down? should a company have to hire someone to come in and cover the job/station that these employees are leaving? it really isn't a religious thing. they want this to happen then they need to save up their vacation time or sick leave and stay home during this time if it is so important. "
Mark wrote on September 16, 2008 8:56 pm:
" The one point missing here is they say they need to pray at sundown. Well the sun goes down earlier and earlier every nite during this time of year. Is the company suppose to have breaks that are at a different time every nite or week to meet their demands? Thats crazy to even think about trying to schedule sometime like that. The company owes those muslim people nothing. If anything, all those who walked off the job should be fired like those in Colorado. There is no reason a business needs to bow to the wishes of muslims so they can pray. Thats what breaks are for. Im sure mohammed or whoever they worship isn't going to hold it against them. "
Hilda wrote on September 16, 2008 9:14 pm:
" It should upset Americans that undue hardship was placed on these individuals and they had to make the case a public one. This demonstrates lack of employer understanding of religious practices that are significant to many people around the world. Petraeus got it when he showed Sunni tribes they mattered. Maybe Nebraskans "don't get it" when they send their sons and daughters to Iraq? "
Hey wrote on September 16, 2008 9:26 pm:
" If they don't like it, they can leave. Adios! "
Jan wrote on September 16, 2008 9:31 pm:
" Geez people; think about this for a minute. There are laws governing breaks. It may not be possible to change breaks without changing work hours etc. and that means all shifts. Now how would that work for say an accounting system for a multinational company? This is a lot more complex than just saying awww come on, give them a some time to pray. "
Dave wrote on September 16, 2008 9:42 pm:
" Good for them! More workers should organize and unionize. "
Ironic wrote on September 16, 2008 10:06 pm:
" Seems most of you take this opportunity as an opportunity to mock Christians. Whether you like it or not, this nation was founded by Christians. And as far as us being intolerant, need I remind you that there are countries in the world, primarily muslim, that will subject you to far worse than job termination for attempting to practice your faith. Of course, I am sure you will find a way to stand up and defend those nations, since all things American and Christian are inherently wrong in your eyes "
R.N. wrote on September 16, 2008 10:25 pm:
" I work at a hospital, I am required to work weekends and holidays, even religious holidays. My employer can dictate the hours/days I work but it can not dictate how/when I pray. In fact, I often pray throughout the day, frequently for the patients I care for. It's not a big production, I simply pray quietly and humbly. I even say the Rosary during work, who is to stop me? I can pray/worship and still efficiently and effectively carry out my obligations to my employer and customers. I guess I don't understand why the Somalians/Muslims can't do the same? "
Yup wrote on September 16, 2008 10:26 pm:
" Seems to me they need to apply for an opening in a shift that ends before sunset. I saw the local news tonight, the person being interviewed needed an interpreter so obviously the hiring process should have been with an interpreter also. If this is a community based service, they need to tell the Muslims what the details of the second shift are. I'd hate to think that they are told to accept the job first, then demand changes after they're hired. "
Dan wrote on September 16, 2008 10:38 pm:
" I agree with religious freedom and know that American was founded with religious freedom for all, however this is low level factory work and sometimes you just don't get the work perks highly educated people get. Think about all the Christians that work at gas stations, restaurants, and grocery stores on Christmas and Easter. It just goes with the territory of the job. Remember, you asked the boss for job, they didn't ask you to work for them. "
bobo wrote on September 16, 2008 10:42 pm:
" They knew the terms of the job when they took it. Do you know how hard it would be to run a business taking into account every religion? How about time off for every Jewish holiday? Maybe your Buddist or Hindu, what about your holidays and time off. Really, how far do you take this? Do you think in a Muslim country a Christian would get Ester or Christmas off, think again. "
John wrote on September 17, 2008 12:17 am:
" I have had to work on Christmas and Easter the two holiest days of the year for Christians. I resented having to do it but God knows that my heart was in church. Thus said, companies have a right to set policies. Ramadan is not a national holiday and even if it was that doesn't meen that the private sector has to abide by it. "
Les wrote on September 17, 2008 2:21 am:
" Quit comparing Christian holidays like Easter and Christmas to the Muslim holiday of Ramadan. It isn't even comparable. They aren't complaining about having to work an entire day, they want a few minutes off at sunset to pray. They are asking that a break, which they are allowed, correspond with sunset, which is ridiculous to deny. "
State Worker wrote on September 17, 2008 5:31 am:
" So many complain about state workers, wonder how many of you would complain when you come to a state agency to assistance and told to wait because the employee is praying? There are many individuals that study the bible at work but during LUNCH and BREAK times. "
Actually Jenn... wrote on September 17, 2008 5:46 am:
" ... I work for a Catholic hospital and Easter is not a recognized holiday as far as time off or holiday pay is concerned. And Christmas is not really a Christian holiday anymore. It has long been a commercial holiday for the majority of people in this country. Don't believe me? Show 100 5 year olds pictures of Santa Claus and Jesus Christ and ask which one is the main figure representing Christmas. "
Doug wrote on September 17, 2008 6:25 am:
" First of all, we don't take a month off during Christmas. Second, I am sure the Muslims also get time off for Christmas and don't complain about that. There are many religions in the USA but Christianity is the majority so Christmas is given as a day off. This IS a free nation. These people are all FREE to quit or go to another country where they get no days or time off to pray. "
Rocky wrote on September 17, 2008 6:53 am:
" To those that point out that Christmas is a "national" holiday, and that the US is a "Christian" nation; no. The US has no official religion, and thankfully, probably never will. Holidays are for weak, lazy, people. Making Christmas a national holiday is a direct assault on separation of Church and State.

Personally, I would love it if national holidays were abandoned. For Federal workers, just give them those 11 or 12 days as additional vacation. Other employers can do what they see fit.

As for needing time to pray; again, let the employers dictate the policies, and new employees will then be told during any application interview of those policies. It's like buying a car . . . a personal shopping for an employer should do their homework, and if they get stuck in a situation they don't like, they can quit. I hate Swift, and their apparent lack of observance of immigration laws, but in this instance, they are in the right. "
Lincolnite wrote on September 17, 2008 9:35 am:
" We tread very dangerous ground with an issue like this. Where does one draw the line? What if I claim to follow a religion that requires me to pray for 3 minutes every hour. If I work a 10 hour shift I'm entitled to a lunch break and a 1/2 hours worth of breaks (generally parsed out as two 15 minute breaks). Should I be "entitled" to having it my way and having a scheduled 3 minutes off with someone to cover for me every hour? That is outrageous to lay that on an employer. Nothing would get done. I agree with previous posters. When you sign on for a job, you are oriented as to how things work. You're told where the breakroom is and how breaks are taken and when you lunch, etc. You are aware of this upfront. If you have concerns they should be brought at that time. It is funny though that no one has mentioned smoke breaks. I work in an office setting where folks can pretty much take breaks on their own schedule. We're told we should take 2-fifteen minute breaks per day, but smokers generally take about 6-8 ten minute breaks daily. It would be interesting to see how this particular business handles smoke breaks. Can someone post some hard facts on how many times Muslims are instructed they need to pray each day during this holy period and how long the prayers take? I saw one post that just said they need to pray 6 times per day. If that is case, is there a requirement on how they can be spaced out? Most people only work, at most, 12 hours in a day. If that is the case here, don't they have 12 other hours in the day they can accomplish this? I wouldn't dream of asking my employer for the kind of consideration that is being asked for here. "
get real wrote on September 17, 2008 9:42 am:
" what makes you think they CAME to this country, how do you know that most of them weren't born here. and all of you reading and posting and being so rude saying fire them and hire new, you in your cush office job that allows you to surf the net and post on blogs...yeah, i'm sure your going to be the first to sign up to work on a kill floor. NOT IT. let them pray. i worked in a job that was 365 long enough to understand that if you want to increase productivity give in to the SMALL requests of your employees, they aren't asking for much, just some of those inalienable rights we are promised in our constitution. "
it says they are from somalia... wrote on September 17, 2008 11:04 am:
" If you bother to read the way we all know they are not born here is the article as well as other news accounts says most of them are from Somalia. Add that to the fact that they are probably at least 18 years old and most Somalians did not start immigrating until around the early to mid 1990s. That would mean that if any were born here, the % is very small. "
Ignignokt wrote on September 17, 2008 11:04 am:
" In response to 'get real', who asked what makes people think that the employees in question CAME to this country...the answer is found in the article (if you actually read it).

"About 500 Swift workers, all Muslim and mostly of Somali background, walked off the job Monday afternoon."

Last I checked, Somalia is not part of the U.S., nor is it contiguous with any of the continental Americas. "
Beamer wrote on September 17, 2008 12:47 pm:
" Wow, many of you point out that Christians get Christmas off. This is not correct. EVERYONE gets Christmas off, because Christmas is recognized as a federal holiday, but some employers (hospitals, gas stations, grocery stores) remain open on these days. And many of those companies compensate their employees with time-and-half pay. Keep in mind that ALL employees benefit from those holidays, whether Christian or not. Does that mean that employers need to also pay all of their employees for 15 minute breaks at sunset, even if they are not Muslim? We do not force our regligion on you. If you choose to be bound by a religious requirement, it is not your employer that must adjust to your needs, you must adjust to your employer. It would then make sense that if the employer agrees to accomodate those employees needs, EVERYONE will have that benefit. That way we are all happy! By the way, just another comment to this, if it were 5 or 10 muslims affected at this particular company, do you think they would have walked off the job? Just a thought, apparently, strength in numbers.... "
Jen C wrote on September 17, 2008 2:44 pm:
" While I am totally understanding and accepting of their religious beliefs, I do not believe that concessions should be made for any religion when it comes to business. There are a lot of companies that are open and operating on major holidays, like Christmas and Thanksgiving, so you can't say that this is a Christian/Non-Christian issue. It is up to the business to decide what is best for their bottom-line operations. If it would cause a loss to allow that many employees to abandon their duties for a religious observation, then the company is well within it's right to deny that. It doesn't mean that the Muslims are being discriminated against. It's just business. You also have to think of the employees that AREN'T Muslim in that factory, the employees that will have to work extra hard to cover for those that are allowed time to pray. And then, of course, you have to concern yourself with those that will abuse the privilege of prayer time. The point is just like with government, religion has no place in business. "
Atheist wrote on September 17, 2008 3:23 pm:
" Ok. Whose version of Mythology will rule here? My guess is the "Noah's Ark" crowd. "
Amina wrote on September 17, 2008 10:28 pm:
" Believe me you will not be allowed freedom to practice your christian faith in most nations and some arrest you if you publicly practice a religion that's not Islamic.I know-I grew up in a muslim country.These same people who walked off the line would be the first to condemn their fellow workers for practicing Christianity publicly.They should appreciate the freedom they have here or are they just extending their religious intolerance towards non Islamic people by imposing their rituals on us? "

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