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Ruling puts gun law in spotlight

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By LORI PILGER / Lincoln Journal Star

Monday, Jun 09, 2008 - 12:28:17 am CDT

A judge tossed charges against a pair of teens who took rifles onto a Lincoln college campus because Nebraska lawmakers’ intentions were unclear.

Did they intend for a law barring firearms from school grounds to apply to colleges? Or just K-12?

Who better to ask than the man who back in 1994 introduced LB988, the bill that would become State Statute 28-1204.04.

Story Photo
Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb. (Nati Harnik)

Former Sen. John Lindsay of Omaha, now a lobbyist in Lincoln, said he couldn’t remember whether they intended to, or talked about, including colleges.

The speaker of the Legislature in 1994 didn’t remember, either.

But staff for Sen. Ben Nelson, who as governor asked Lindsay to introduce the bill, said they were going after the K-12 schools, not college campuses.

“At the time there were kids all of a sudden taking guns into schools,” said Jim Fagin, Nelson’s deputy communications director. “It was a problem at the time, and they wanted to address it.”

The intentions — remembered by some and forgotten by others — found their way to the heart of a criminal case involving two young men who carried rifles to UNL’s student union Sept. 19 for a College Republicans meeting to talk about the National Rifle Association.

The state argued senators didn’t define the word school in statute, but because it isn’t a technical word they didn’t have to define it. The plain meaning of the word would include any educational institution, attorneys said.

Defense attorneys contended the words were not synonymous, and that the Legislature either intentionally or inadvertently excluded a college campus from the law’s scope. It wasn’t for the courts to supply missing words to make a statute clear.

In his ruling on Monday, Lancaster County Judge Gale Pokorny sided with the defense, dismissing charges against Colin Fury, 18, and Craig Clark, 19.

Pokorny said it was noteworthy the Legislature learned of a potential definition problem in 2006 through an opinion by Attorney General Jon Bruning.

Lawmakers amended the Concealed Handgun Permit Act the next session to fix it but chose not to do the same with a related statute: “unlawful possession of a firearm on school grounds.”

Which led to the debate over the charge and Pokorny’s ruling.

Asked what he recalled of the bill, Lindsay said he introduced it 14 years ago as part of a larger crime bill.

“At the time there was a concern about guns being brought onto school grounds,” he said.

It was a concern, Lindsay said, but back then — five years before Columbine, 13 years before Virginia Tech — senators didn’t know just how real the threat was.

Lindsay said there’d been some incidents of kids bringing guns to school, and state senators started asking questions.

What if someone brings a gun to a high school football game? Or Memorial Stadium? Or anywhere else emotions run high?

Not everyone was for the idea to bar guns from schools. Lindsay remembered debate over whether parents with gun racks in pickups could pick up their kids at school if the bill passed?

But the more contentious part of the 1994 juvenile crime bill was a youth boot camp, according to Lincoln Journal archives.

“School is for teaching children; it is not for possessing guns,” a reporter quoted Lindsay saying in March 1994.

The bill would reduce violence among youth, he said in another story.

Senators voted 45-1 to pass it.

After a story in Tuesday’s paper, then-Speaker of the Legislature Ron Withem, director of government relations for the University of Nebraska today, tried to think back to 1994.

“But I couldn’t come up with any concrete answers,” he said.

Withem remembered other issues, like a provision for mandatory expulsions that was dropped.  Not a discussion if it should apply to colleges and universities.

Pokorny said in his ruling, a review of floor debate and legislative history of the bill revealed references to juvenile justice, but no specific discussion or definition of “school.”

He threw the charges out Monday.

University policy forbids guns on campus, regardless.

On Friday, Fagin clarified Nelson’s intention. Though his staff couldn’t recall the detail behind the 1994 bill, Nelson did.

“The senator said we weren’t trying to solve all the problems. We were looking to solve the problem at the time,” Fagin said.

It seems to have made a difference, he said.

To try to go beyond that to college campuses could lead to a lot of complications, Fagin said.

For one thing, he said, sprawling public campuses are different than grade schools where people need to check in at the door.

“You’re dealing with adults versus children,” Fagin said.

Lindsay said legally colleges always have been treated differently than primary schools, partly for just that reason.

“I think there is a difference,” he said.

“Now the Legislature certainly could include colleges or universities within the meaning of that statute, and we could have at that time. ... I suspect the difference wasn’t even discussed.”

The law came up in the Legislature again in 2002, when former Sen. Kermit Brashear introduced a bill to raise the penalty for violations. But, he said Friday, they didn’t revisit the substance of the already existing statute.

In 2002, everyone who testified on the bill was from K-12 school boards or groups. And the law includes an exception for “nonstudent adults,” which Brashear said seemed to indicate it was intended to apply to K-12 schools.

For the most part, he said, the word “school” in statutes means K-12. But it can mean a postsecondary institution, too.

“So it is not clear whether there was an understanding that the statute originally applied to colleges or not, and nothing we did in our bill appears to change that understanding one way or the other,” Brashear said.

Reach Lori Pilger at 473-7237 or lpilger@journalstar.com.


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Barry Frerichs wrote on June 9, 2008 7:19 am:
" I still don't understand how a law that bans possession of guns on a campus, will prevent episodes like Columbine, or Virginia Tech. Isn't it already against the law to shoot other people? To me, it is obvious that someone who is planning a rampage such as that, doesn't care what the laws are, or what is ethically/morally correct. In the case of VA Tech, might any lives have been saved if some other sane,law-abiding person had been armed? I recall eyewitnesses seeing the shooter, and even having the opportunity to put him down,but being unable to because they were unarmed. I just have never understood how banning guns can deter crime or violence. All it does is takes away the ability for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves from criminals who would rather prey on a population that it knows is defenseless. With the logic or gun-control freaks, we could stop international terrorism if we just made laws against the possession of explosives and other weapons of terror. Think that will work? "

Raymond wrote on June 9, 2008 7:47 am:
" As Lincolnites go about thier business at grocery stores, in parks, on city streets and so on, they are in the midst of legal, background checked law abiding citizens who have the right to carry.
The question of guns on campus is a moot one as the ones we have to really worry about are the ones who don't care about laws anyway. If anything, if the students at colleges where mass murders have happened were allowed to carry, perhaps innocent lives could have been saved. "

tim wrote on June 9, 2008 11:57 am:
" how many schools have trap shooting teams? how many students had a shotgun in their vehicle on school property prior to practice or meets? this, like most gun laws, will only have a negative effect on law-a-biding citizens and zero effect on criminals. "

TS wrote on June 9, 2008 12:25 pm:
" Barry,
Your logic is absolutely sensible. Armed students may have been able to intervene in a situation such as Virginia Tech and perhaps also may have stopped the shooter. However, that example is just a tiny microcosm that his been plucked out of the larger picture. With gun control in place there will always be individuals who ignore the law and bring death and destruction on a relatively small scale. We live with that risk every day. It is a riskier situation when individuals are allowed to carry guns at all times. If concealed weapons are pervasive, then we'll not only have to deal with the psychopathic behavior of individuals such as the Virginia Tech shooter, we'll have to deal with all of the deaths that will occur in the course of daily human conflict due to the easy access of deadly weapons. "

JL wrote on June 9, 2008 1:42 pm:
" TS
Your logic regarding concealed weapons is not sensible. I recall all the doom and gloom warnings that were hypothisized when Nebraska introduced concealed carry laws, and there has yet to be any violence or death from a concealed carry permit holder. "

HTA wrote on June 9, 2008 2:25 pm:
" People keep saying that we need to ban guns so that we keep individuals from going on a rampage and killing multiple people. Maybe they should checkout the story from Tokyo where an individual drove into a crowd and proceeded to stab 17 people, killing 7 of them. When are they going to get that it's the person, not the instrument. "

Wyo Cowboy wrote on June 9, 2008 2:28 pm:
" WHAT??? Guns on the University of Nebraska campus?
Anybody ever heard of Pershing Rifles?....John J. Pershing or Pershing Auditorium? It's part of your history and education. Get over it!
Just do a search of "Pershing" or "Pershing Rifles" on the Internet and UNL websites and see what all comes up.
Here's a few to help you get started:

http://www.pershingriflessociety.org/
http://si-backup.unl.edu/einvolvement/rsoinfo.php?id=142
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_Rifles
http://web.mit.edu/c12abn/www/history_nspr.shtml
http://historicbuildings.unl.edu/building.php?b=88

. "

mitchy_v wrote on June 9, 2008 2:40 pm:
" Those who go through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit are less of a danger than those who don't. Those who don't obviously don't care what the law says. Look at the Von Maur shootings. There was a trained individule with a concealed carry permit at the mall during the shooting. He had to leave his gun in the car due to the "no gun" rule at the mall. The shooter ignored that sign. Tougher restrictions will only lead to less people following the laws because they are a pain to follow for those of us who are not a threat. The only way to curb this situations is for friends and family to be concerned when someone you know is acting strange. "

bob wrote on June 9, 2008 2:42 pm:
" Barry. Well said..I have never seen such a great description of the gun topic.

And TC...sorry you logic is way off. Just because CCW holders have weapons does not mean they are more likely to use them in situations...I feel it is the opposite. As a CCW person you are more likely to try and defuse the situation then esculate it.

To get a CCW you must pass backround checks. Take a extensive class. Prove you are profficent with your gun. And re-apply from time to time. CCW people are more likely to follow the laws to a T then break them. "

Warder wrote on June 9, 2008 4:29 pm:
" Seen on the back of a t-shirt an at NRA meeting:

If guns kill people then:
Pencils miss spel words.
Cars make people drive drunk
TV's make you watch too much

Sweden gives semi-automatic weapons to adult males for their mandatory military service. They are expected to maintain their weapon and keep trained through out most of their adult lives. Even though almost half their population is well armed, their gun crime rate is almost zero. "

mark wrote on June 9, 2008 6:24 pm:
" To TS, who stated: "If concealed weapons are pervasive"...."we'll have to deal with all of the deaths that will occur in the course of daily human conflict due to the easy access of deadly weapons. "

With all due respect, are you aware that most states (46) allow citizens with permits to carry concealed firearms, and two states do not require citizens to obtain a permit in order to carry concealed firearms?

Legally concealed firearms are not uncommon.
Deaths caused by permit holders are extremely uncommon. "

Ban the guns wrote on June 9, 2008 8:04 pm:
" Here is a fact you gun lovers can't dispute - If there were no guns in the world today - millions of people would be alive.

While I agree there has been no incident yet involving a permit with a concealed carry permit - I have read of no instances of any of these people stopping a crime either.

I love the "makeing explosives illegal would not stop terrorism" quote. Using that logic we might as well allow every household to have nuclear weapons. My guess is that if we did that today - the world would be gone tomorrow. "

Just wonderful wrote on June 9, 2008 10:23 pm:
" Guns are a good thing. They shoot bullets if you pull the trigger and bullets hurt or terminate what they hit. But there is something warm and symbolic about this mechanism to some people. I just for the life of me can not figure out what is so great about it to the people defending it at all costs. Its just a damn weapon folks. Doesn't breath or produce, just rips stuff. Not a life line to heaven. How could it be? Its only meant to kill. Case closed. "

Warder wrote on June 9, 2008 11:03 pm:
" @Ban the guns

Of course we can't dispute it, but it's an irrelevant fact. Here in the real world we have guns, and they're an issue.

Saying we might as well give everyone a nuke is just as irrelevant. It totally misses the point at hand. Since you missed it, the point is outlawing something won't necessarily stop it. "

mitchy_v wrote on June 10, 2008 7:50 am:
" Actually you can dispute it - "If there were no guns in the world today - millions of people would be alive." How many people did the Romans, Indians, Vikings, etc kill before there were guns. How did they do it??? You can kill someone with a rock. Do you want to ban rocks too? "

Hey Ban the Guns... wrote on June 10, 2008 9:11 am:
" ...there was an incident just last year where a guys shot some girls at a church and he was ultimately stopped by a woman who carried a concealed permit weapon. Who knows how many more this fellow would have killed had she not been there. "

Ban Guns wrote on June 10, 2008 1:32 pm:
" The church incident involved a licensed security guard. While I would like all guns to be banned if there had to be an exception I would want police and security to have them.

In a life and death situation I certainly would rather face someone throwing rocks than with an automatic weapon. "

ranger wrote on June 10, 2008 2:12 pm:
" Prohibition does not work. Ms. Asam was not a security guard, she was a member of the church who was a there as a volunter. Firearms are used to STOP crimes over 2.5 million times a year. Banning guns is not an answer, if that would be the case police and military should not have weapons. There are laws against drunk driving yet people are killed daily as a result of people driving drunk, perhps if we ban cars and alcohol and drugs that would stop. It is not rational. People have to assume responsibilty for their own safety, if that means that I chose to carry a firearm for my own protection and protection of others against evil, then I should have that right (2nd Amendment). If I chose to use that weapon in a irresposible way, then I should suffer the consequenses, If I elect to use that wespon to commit a crime such as murder then I should be prepared to have my life ended by someone stepping up to stop me. We are all responsible for our actions and thus need to accept the consequences of those actions be they good or bad. Guns are not evil, it is the peson who has that weapon who controls it be it for good or evil purposes. "

Jen wrote on June 10, 2008 3:23 pm:
" Oh, screw the semantics. What logical, intelligent reason can you come up with for bringing a gun to ANY school, regardless of whether it's K-12 or college? "

mark wrote on June 10, 2008 4:48 pm:
" "What logical, intelligent reason can you come up with for bringing a gun to ANY school, regardless of whether it's K-12 or college? "

In light of recent highly publicized assaults against school children and college students many would say that it is completely logical for someone in the schools to be armed...someone besides an assailant!

The intellegent logical reason: to insure the safety of the students. "

Kevin wrote on June 10, 2008 4:52 pm:
" @Ban Guns: That church member was just a church member who volunteered to be armed at church. Many churches have since set up similar systems. They find a member(s) of the congregation who has/have the qualifications to organize a group of people and they discuss the procedures to follow for a variety of situations. The "security team" will be a group of people with their concealed handgun permits and will have a plan in place to deal with anything from a minor confrontation (de-escalating the situation) to a nightmare scenario like aforementioned Colorado church. I typically find that the people who are so frightened by guns are people who have little or no experience with them and never learned how to properly and safely use them. A firearm is a tool, just like anything else, it can be used for good or bad. Banning them will do no good. Just look at London, handguns have been banned for over 10 years now and the violent crime rate keeps rising. Now they're seriously trying to pass legislation to ban kitchen knives. "