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Letters, 5/13: Deportation math

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 12:38:38 am CDT

There are several deceptive or oversimplified ideas going around on the problem of illegal immigrants:

* That there are 12 million (some say 20 million) of them. Where did that number come from?

* That illegal immigrants take jobs away from Americans. People who have jobs are not only producers (through their jobs) but also consumers (of food, housing, transportation, entertainment, etc.), which makes jobs for others. On the average, a person consumes as much as he produces.

* That we should deport all of the illegal immigrants. This neglects some simple arithmetic. For if we were to ship out 12 million people on buses, each of which holds 50 illegal immigrants plus driver and guards, it would require 240,000 trips!

Edgar Pearlstein, Lincoln

Bring back the Fourth

As a lifetime resident of Lincoln, I feel the need to voice my opinion about bringing the Fourth of July celebration back to Holmes Lake. I can’t remember the last time the celebration was held at Holmes Lake, but I do know it was moved to Oak Lake because Holmes was being refurbished.

The lake has been done for a number of years now. I urge Mayor Chris Beutler to make a decision to move it back to Holmes Lake for the year 2009.  

Perhaps Holmes Lake could get the Fourth of July celebration with years ending in odd numbers and Oak Lake with even-numbered years. Does anyone have a better idea?

Jenny Clementz, Lincoln

Food-free arena

I wholeheartedly agree with those people who have voiced their opinion about whether beer or alcohol should be allowed in a new Haymarket arena. There are so many other places to obtain alcohol.

I assume those people agree with me that nachos and soda also should be banned. Those products are available in even more places.

Jim Novotny, Lincoln

Keep it clean, Lincoln

I found it noble and at the same time a shame that one of the runners in our marathon was able to pick up 20 pounds of trash along the route while running. This should be a day that Lincoln is pristine and on display for people from across the state and nation.

I’m now sure that my neighborhood is not the only area in the city that seems to be awash in litter. We need a user tax on the following: fast-food wrappers and packaging, plastic drink cups, plastic bags, plastic bottles, cigarette packages, liquor and beer bottles, and all candy wrappers and boxes. This way the people who use these products could pay to have them picked up. This tax could be put into a fund and groups could be paid from this fund, and the city could possibly hire people in need of some extra money to pick up litter on a regular basis.

Most neighborhoods have an annual volunteer cleanup day, but trash is a problem every day. In my area trash seems to be just as bad on city property as it does on private property. Just take a walk along the trail from 33rd Street west to 24th or take a walk on the overpass on Holdrege.

I have lived in Lincoln most of my life and have never seen it dirtier. In my area, I have seen a few of the businesses along 27th from Cornhusker to O Street make a daily effort to keep their property free of litter.

However, realistically can we depend upon marathon runners to pick up our litter? If we could have some extra tax funds to help pay for litter removal, it would be an advantage for everyone.

Don C. Sutton, Lincoln


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Anonymous wrote on May 13, 2008 1:59 am:
" Deportation Math: What most people don't know is that it is hard to find a job that does NOT require a Social Security number. Sure one MIGHT find a local farmer that can hire you without papers for a day, or a month, but generally illegal immigrants need to eat for the entire year, as do most people. Well, that leaves several months, at least, to find a job. In that case, someone that is backed into a corner, MIGHT make-up a social security number, and then work a "normal" job. Once you put down a social # at a job, guess what Uncle Sam does???? They take out taxes!!! Well, what do many americans expect from their taxation? They have food stamps, housing assistance, and take advantage of police and medical services. Seems fair, their taxes paid for them! However, if you are not a legal resident you WILL NOT get food stamps, housing benefits, loans, police service, and on the off chance that you are close to death, you MIGHT get medical services. Well, that taxation goes into the national and state coffers, and then what??? It certainly is not given back to the illegal immigrants. Some say that americans lose SOOO much money to pay for illegal immagrants yet, where does that money come from? I've never heard of anyone without proper documentation getting food or housing?? I've never seen undocumented workers living in South Lincoln while paying such high rent or mortgage with US tax dollars. No, they live in the slums. Sadly the only place that they can afford, because they are taxed to death! Think about that, next time you are signing your rebate check. Your tax dollars, hard at work, keeping hard working illegals from living in any decent neighborhood! "

 Keep Fourth at Oak Lake wrote on May 13, 2008 4:56 am:
" (RESUBMITTED: Edited first sentence)

One needs only to look to Don Sutton's letter to see why Lincoln's Fourth of July celebration needs to stay at Oak Lake rather than return to Holmes.
After literally millions of dollars of renovation and restoration to make Holmes Lake park a jewel, why in the world would you want to have thousands of people arrive to trample the grounds and dump their trash all over it? There would be far more than just cups and cans littering the area -- paper, plastic, gunpowder and debris from the display would also fall into the now healthy lake, seriously affecting the water quality and devastating the habitat. Traffic access is limited to three points: one on Normal Boulevard and two on 70th Street, causing a traffic nightmare. Parking availability is certainly just as limited or even more so than at Oak lake.
Why make a sow's ear out of a silk purse?

"

 Give Me A Break Don wrote on May 13, 2008 6:23 am:
" Don C. Sutton wants a tax on fast food wrappers, plastic bags, etc. We don't need anymore taxes! People like Don C Sutton are the 1st to whine about how much food and gas costs these days, but are more than willing to pay more in taxes. Why does the government need more of our money? They are the most inefficient entity we have. "

 nachos wrote on May 13, 2008 6:53 am:
" Come on Jim, when you eat nachos does it impair your driving? Does it cause you to lose your job? Your wife and family? Your inhibitions?
A hot dog maybe, but not nachos! "

 Pro Freedom wrote on May 13, 2008 6:55 am:
" Let's keep the firework show at Oak Lake and continue to enjoy the show along with the large number of people that attend the event. We never went to Holmes lake because there wasn't any parking, so we would end up at a friends house on their deck....which I understand is what most people in the area always did. At Oak Lake there are lots of people at the lake, enjoying the day together. Isn't that what a public event should do,...bring people together? Keep it at Oak Lake where there is parking and crowds that enjoy each other and the fireworks. "

 Sorry Jenny wrote on May 13, 2008 7:00 am:
" The powers that be have found a way to force more people to their pet projects, such as the Haymarket by keeping the fireworks at Oak Lake. To bad for tradition but really great for Haymarket business. Does kinda illuminate the agendas of our political leaders in city government. Their motto: "Serve business and let the people be damned". "

 Heres an idea Don wrote on May 13, 2008 7:41 am:
" It's so easy even a County Commissioner could think of it - make the prisoners pick up the litter! Although it may be a lot cheaper for you and I to do it with the jail costs and all... "

 To anonymous wrote on May 13, 2008 7:53 am:
" Your argument does not hold water. Because they do not pay taxes, except for FICA. They do this by filling out a W2 and claiming 20 dependents and then do not file taxes at the end of the year. Furthermore, because there are so many of them, they have had the effect of lowering the wages for the rest of us. So, they "buy" a Soc. Sec. number. Please see the story in today's LJS about the police breaking up a forgery ring. Also please see the story about the raid in Iowa where three people at the same meat packing plant were using the same SS number. If you are, or were someone who had your identity stollen and you could not get credit, rent, buy a house, etc, you would feel a lot differently. "

 Anonymous wrote on May 13, 2008 8:47 am:
" Actually, the argument does hold water, and I think your response negates itself. The ones who are CAUGHT claim 20 dependents. The ones who are NOT caught do not claim 20 dependents. What I am saying is that anything can work for a short time, but those claiming 20 dependants, or who use the same social #, get caught very quickly. The majority that are not caught don't use 20 dependents. Sure they are going to claim more than they have, at least I would. They don't get many benefits from taxation. What generally happens when one files his or her taxes in April? They get a refund. When you do not file taxes, you don't get a refund. Granted, those without documents don't pay in at the end of the year either, but they've been doing so all year too!
Lastly, to have your identity truly abused, said peron would have to get obscene amounts of credit on the false social security number. Please tell me the name of a bank that will give a car loan or a credit card to someone that has a name that does NOT match the name on record for that social security number. It will NEVER happen. By definition the identity is stolen, but, by definition, it cannot be abused. What happens is that the IRS sends a letter to the illegal saying their social security # does not match their name and they need to fix that at their place of employment.
The hardest part of all of this, is that you cannot trust the bias of what's reported about illegal aliens. Those are the exceptions, NOT the rule. If it's reported, then by definition, it caught the attention of the authorities, and was more than likely stopped. "

 stignob wrote on May 13, 2008 9:53 am:
" Anybody for illegal immigration is against America plain and simple. It undermines us as citizens and a country, why even have borders? Do you think Mexico is as welcoming? The FACTS are out there on what kind of costs they are burdening on us, but people don't want too know the truth, so they lash out RACISM! We are destroying ourselves from within...
"

 RE Edgar wrote on May 13, 2008 10:07 am:
" The government gives this number of 12 million. Probably get that from people applying for ssi or other welfare. As far as shipping them back and buses needed. It would more than pay for itself to spend say 200 dollars a ticket for 240,000 than to give these people benefits that 50 million american taxpayers have earned. Spend the 20 million or so to send them back then let the border patrol do their job to keep them out. No more locking up guards who are doing their jobs. Try crossing a border in Europe, middle east, or far east, getting caught, and see what happens to you. Even try sneaking into mexico getting caught and enjoy the mexican jails. "

 Grundle wrote on May 13, 2008 10:17 am:
" Once again, someone trots out the old argument that, because it's so much work to document and deport illegal immigrants, then we shouldn't even bother...we should just continue doing what we've been doing and turn a blind eye. Does it really matter where the 12-20 million number came from? Do you, Mr. Pearlstein, have more reliable numbers that indicate a lower total? If so, where do they come from? Here's where the 12 million number comes from, " The Pew Hispanic Center used Census Bureau data to estimate that the United States had 11.1 million illegal immigrants in March 2005. The center used monthly population estimates to project a current total of 11.5 million to 12 million. The report estimates that 850,000 illegal immigrants have arrived in United States each year since 2000." Using the 850,000/year...the current estimate should be right around 13.7 million...and still growing. "

 Sean wrote on May 13, 2008 10:57 am:
" Well Eddy...here's some simple math. There are 12 (or 20) million illegal immigrants. That means there are 12 (or 20) million criminals running loose. So your solution is to throw up your hands and allow them to run free? Excellent idea! Open up the jails too while your at it! No point in locking someone up for breaking the law when youv'e already got a few million on running loose. "

 OK Stignob wrote on May 13, 2008 12:01 pm:
" Where are the facts you claim that show how much illegal immigrants cost us? I have searched the web and cannot find any verifiable information backing your claim. By verifiable, I mean more than one source that shows similar data. "

 Dano wrote on May 13, 2008 12:54 pm:
" Litter solution = chain gangs. Make jail time = hard time or work for a change.

Orange jackets and white and black striped jumpsuits for eveyone. Get them to work instead of worrying about who siad what about them , or where the missing adult material is. Won't have time for petty crimes behind bars, if they are all tired form a hard days work. At least they would be paying back the community instead of just sitting there. "

 Why not wrote on May 13, 2008 3:08 pm:
" What is wrong with discriminating against criminals? I wouldn't want to rent out an apartment to criminals either. Next the NEOC will want to prosecute bank tellers for dicriminating against bank-robbers. "

 TERESA wrote on May 13, 2008 3:26 pm:
" Another meat packing plant raided, thank goodness for that. It's about time they start raiding places like this. What happens is that business/companies bring the illegal aliens over to work for them, and then when their permit has expired no one does anything about it. This is where people like INS or whoever need to step up and take charge. "

 hmmmmmmmmmm wrote on May 13, 2008 3:29 pm:
" Again, we need to stop these people from crossing over the borders. There would be no arresting people, this is a HUGE problem and it needs stopped immediately. "

 Douglas Novak Crete wrote on May 13, 2008 3:35 pm:
" Anyu one who publicly endorses criminal activity without signing their authentic name is a a coward. Illegal immigration is illegal. I personally have no use for any criminal no matter what their honorable intentions for their hard working family. If being here actually represents your disrespect for the law, you can NEVER be a real American. This was a country of law. It is no more. Now tell me how that helped America prosper? Community has been replaced by pseudo-community. My neighbor tells me his name is X and he tells my friend (who employs him) his name is Y. I see him in the bank lobby and hear him tell the teller his name Z. Under which name does he pay taxes and under which name does he collect welfare benefits? Which name is shielding him from law enforcement personel? All three prevent him from being my friend, neighbor, or fellow citizen. He is here illegally and I disrespect him for it. Does he work hard? Yes. Big deal! My grandfather had a big mule that worked hard for poverty wages and the mule didn't lie, cheat, or steal. Illegal immigration is theft no matter the color of your skin, the country of your origin, or how hard you work for your family. "

 Curious wrote on May 13, 2008 4:07 pm:
" There are lots of ranting comments about illegal immigrants on this comment section but absolutely no practical suggestions. The population from the states of Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas, and Missouri total about 20 million. I happen to know that the INS office in Lincoln pays poorly and is always in need of employees. So where will we find people who are willing to work for low pay to gather all the citizens of Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas and Missouri as some of you have suggested? Let's see some good, practical solutions. I don't have any. "

 Edgar Pearlstein wrote on May 13, 2008 4:30 pm:
" Thank you, Grundle, for leading me to a reference to an answer to the question I asked. It appears that the number of "unauthorized migrants" is determined by the Pew Hispanic Center from data on the total number of persons born in other countries and subtracting the number of those known to be here legally, making various corrections and adjustments. "

 citizen wrote on May 13, 2008 4:41 pm:
" The entire focus on illegal immigratino is directed to our Southern border. Please, people, remember that there are a number of people whose relatives came to this country legally circa 1900, and also believe in LEGAL immigration. Remember that the next time that you see someone that "looks" Mexican. Chances are that person speaks English as their first language and may not even speak Spanish. "

 practical solution wrote on May 13, 2008 5:30 pm:
" Maybe we should "liberate" the Mexican people. Relocate all the meatpacking, canning and the rest of the paltry remaining American manufacturing jobs to Mexico. I'm sure the Mexicans would be so grateful that they would work for free to "rebuild" their country. "

 stignob wrote on May 13, 2008 6:17 pm:
" No problem; Here's a few. The list goes on and on...And the numbers don't add up for what they benefit to our society because all of their labor is unskilled and/or cheap.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm
"

 Not Anonymous wrote on May 13, 2008 7:27 pm:
" I don't know where you get your "facts" Anonymous, but I work with someone who works a second job, in Lincoln, at a business, but is paid "under the table" so no income is reported and no taxes are collected. Based on this information, and the type of job it is, there is ample opportunity for people--not just illegal immigrants--to gain employment and provide for their family. I would dearly love to keep 100% of what I earn instead of the roughly 55% after taxes and pre-tax retirement deferment. I could make my mortgage go away twice as quick, or buy a new car every other year if I didn't have to pay taxes. "

 Terry wrote on May 13, 2008 7:32 pm:
" The illegal immigrant is a problem in this country. Why is it that there is always someone trying to make it look like it is no big deal? What part of ILLEGAL is NOT understood here. What should be happening here is to deport parents and there kids. And there is always someone out there that says they are only trying to make a better life for them self. Well that is all a bank robber is trying to do is make a better life for them self at someone else expense "

 ah yes but wrote on May 13, 2008 9:45 pm:
" jim, nachos and soda don't tend to make one act foolish and be obnoxious in public like alcohol does. Not everyone can hold their liquor and be respectful and considerate at the same time. "

 a trash hound wrote on May 14, 2008 1:39 pm:
" Every day I pick up trash out of my yard. Its not my trash. I didnt throw it there. I find beer cans, pop cans, candy wrappers, paper plates, all kinds of stuff. I often wonder how does it keep getting in my yard. Does it blow there or is it because people walk thru my yard to get to the alley behind my house and just keep littering? Its very annoying, and sometimes while I am picking up somebody elses trash I complain outloud about having to do this. Yesterday I filled half of a walmart sack with somebody elses trash. Good for the runner who did pick that litter up. If everyone made a change in their behavior and stopped littering, or do what I do when i see a litterbug, the world and Lincoln would be a cleaner place. "

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