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Pastors agree: Being gay not a sin, Bible says to love everyone

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BY THE REV. STEPHEN GRIFFITH

Monday, Sep 10, 2007 - 12:34:47 am CDT

As clergy who care about our members’ lives and the hospitality of our community, we were pleased to see the article “Same-sex climate a hot issue” in the Lincoln Journal Star on July 29. The writer provided poignant examples of how laws of intolerance affect peoples’ lives.

We were saddened, then, to read responses saying “homosexuality is a sin.” Although such a statement clearly comes out of a deep conviction, we, too, have deeply held beliefs and we feel compelled by our faith to speak out. Being gay is not a sin. We have read widely, studied the Bible, been in many conversations with gay persons and their families and are convinced that being gay is not a choice a person makes, it is who a person is — much the same way that one’s eyes are brown or one is left-handed.

We too love the Bible and base our lives on its teachings. At the same time we recognize that it contains many legal and ritual prescriptions that people today no longer accept. For example, we regularly wear clothes that have a variety of types of threads mixed together within them; few people would support stoning children for disobedience; and most people would not assume slavery as part of the social system, as Paul does. Our challenge is to discern what parts of the Bible will be our highest authority: the few verses that seem to reject gay people or the countless times the Scriptures exhort us to do justice and love our neighbor.

A common thread runs through the scriptures of many faiths: the importance of mutual respect and the inherent worth of each person. In our work as ministers, we often counsel people who face discrimination because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. Some are bullied or harassed at school. Others face being fired. Some are beaten on the street and are afraid to go to the police for fear of further harassment. If they are fired from their job, they have no legal recourse because state laws in Nebraska and 30 other states permit this.

Such daily oppression takes a toll on a person. Hiding who you are may help you keep your job, but it also deadens a piece of one’s soul. Providing a home and caring for one’s family brings much satisfaction in life. All of us strive to achieve that good life and find that happiness. In contrast, living in fear for one’s economic security or even one’s safety undermines the goodness of life and destroys the possibility of happiness.

We believe that people of faith have a responsibility to care for each other — body and soul. So our faith requires us not only to speak of human dignity but to work to ensure that every member of our community is treated fairly. Our concern is about people not living in fear anymore. It is about embracing family. It is about freedom and equality. It is about respect for difference.

As clergy serving in your communities, we sincerely hope and pray that in Lincoln and in Nebraska we can live together with respect.

The Rev. Stephen Griffith is a pastor at Saint Paul United Methodist Church in Lincoln. The views expressed in this column have the support of 21 other local pastors in various denominations.

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WCG wrote on September 10, 2007 7:52 am:

" That's a nice sentiment, but you don't really base your life on the bible. You pick and choose from the bible - and elsewhere - what you want to believe, and base your life on that. That makes more sense, of course. What rational human being these days will accept keeping slaves, killing suspected witches or, even worse, slaughtering men, women, and children who don't worship the 'right' god? The bible is an ancient document of tribal mythology. It's certainly not applicable to modern day without some significant revisions. But that said, why bother? If you're going to use your reason and your compassion, why not just do so directly and skip all the superstitious mumbo-jumbo? Being gay is not a choice, and it wouldn't be any of my business anyway. I've figured that out using evidence and reason, and so have you. No bible needed. "

Dave wrote on September 10, 2007 8:05 am:

" Leviticus Chapter 18 verse 22 " Thou shall not lie with mankind,as with womankind: it is abomination" Leviticus Chapter 20 verse 13 "If a man also lie with mankind,as he lieth with a woman,both of them have committed an abomination: They shall surely be put to death: Their blood shall be upon them. "

Stacey VZ wrote on September 10, 2007 8:50 am:

" Well that's just wrong. And just because you gather a group of people to say the opposite doesn't make it true. I'd like to apply your logic to other things. If I get enough people to agree that Methodists aren't really Christians does that make it true? John Wesley would be rolling in his grave, which is too bad because for the most part I have great admiration for his teachings. Too bad his denomination doesn't. "

Pauline wrote on September 10, 2007 9:39 am:

" Thank you, Rev. Griffith, for having the confidence in what you believe to publish it in our city's newspaper. You have my total respect. "

Beedle wrote on September 10, 2007 10:18 am:

" You have my respect also, for going against the grain to say that homosexuality is neither right nor wrong, but like left-handedness, eye color, and heterosexuality, simply 'is.' "

whatever wrote on September 10, 2007 10:59 am:

" I appreciate the courage it takes to take a stand on this issue. But morally and ethically the position is completely bankrupt. While there are certainly promiscous and less than ethical heterosexual individuals, too many in fact. I have seen nothing in the homosexual lifestyle that promotes monogomy and a stable family. Certainly the Bible teaches us to love our neighbor, but that love doesn't cross the line to accepting that neighbor as without sin, nor to ignore sin, which the position outlined in the piece certainly implies, if not outright states. "

Edgar Pearlstein wrote on September 10, 2007 11:02 am:

" The word "abomination" appears 152 times in the Bible (KJV): Here are a few abominations: Eating certain kinds of fish and fowl. (Leviticus 11:10-23) Various kinds of fortune-telling. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) Wearing clothing usually worn by the opposite sex. (Deuteronomy 22:5) Remarrying a woman after having divorced her. (Deuteronomy 24:3-4) Being "proud in heart". (Proverbs 16:5) Burning incense. (Isaiah 1:13) Charging interest for borrowed money. (Ezekial 18:13) Uncircumcised people in the temple's sanctuary. (Ezekial 44:6-9) "

E Jr wrote on September 10, 2007 11:54 am:

" I am still trying to figure what is meant by the "homosexual lifestyle." All the homosexuals I know have jobs, pay taxes, celebrate important events together, eat the same food I do. I think their lifestyle is pretty much the same as mine except for one thing: who they have sex with. And of course that happens behind closed doors just as it does with heterosexuals! "

Dave wrote on September 10, 2007 11:55 am:

" Dear Rev Griffith,it must to nice for you and the other ministers to pick and choose what you believe is a sin in the bible. I feel like committing adultery,could you please do an article on that and say its not a sin.Thanks,Oh when 2 gay people can have a child without any help from an outsider,then I might support your position. "

interest wrote on September 10, 2007 12:30 pm:

" I have to agree that charging interest for borrowing money is an abomination... "

Luke Peteson wrote on September 10, 2007 1:22 pm:

" I want to thank Rev. Griffith as well for taking this stand of principle and respect. Doing some more reading about GLBT studies on my own, I have come to understand that anger is the basic sentiment that both sides of the debate share. The anger from GLBT folk can stem from the lack of power they feel among society (kind of like being a victim of a bully on the school playground so to speak). Anger from the righteous "intolerables" stem from their innate fear and misunderstanding of what they can't identify with. I was always taught that Christianity is about loving and caring for those who you don't necessarily see eye to eye with as if you cared for them like they were your family and loved ones. I believe Jesus preached that but I fear that too many Christians today are blinded by a misguided prejudice. I try not to "put myself out there" (I get accused of that a lot) but I can't let the homophobia that ravages decent people into malcontent for their fellow neighbor go on. I only pray that maybe people will recognize what I advocate for and respect me for it instead of chastise me like a pariah. "

Dave wrote on September 10, 2007 4:42 pm:

" Rev Griffith said Being gay is not a choice a person makes,its who a person is? If God had that information,then why did God say they surely be put to death? Leviticus Chapter 20, Verse 13.Do we forgive all the priests that molested children because it's no longer a sin? "

Wondering wrote on September 10, 2007 4:49 pm:

" I am wondering what theology degrees these posters who think they know the bible better than these ministers? These ministers who signed this letter have advanced degrees and have spent years studying the Bible and their respective denomination's philosophy. I think these posters who say they know the Bible better are just spouting something someone else has said that jive with their narrow-mindedness view of the world. If I want an interpretation of the Bible, I would go to my minister and get his interpretation rather than my neighbor or some radio talking head who doesn't know squat and is trying to raise his/her ratings. "

Gay Christian wrote on September 10, 2007 5:29 pm:

" I want to thank you Rev Griffith for standing up for the many Gay Christians in our community. My partner and I and our daughter are very thankful for the many people of Lincoln that think like you. As for the other, not like minded folks that still feel we are sinners...you will never come to believe anything else until God himself tells you so. I too am bothered by the many scriptures used to promote HATE and the bottom line for me was to educate myself so I could learn differently. We as a community are quite tired of the over use of Leviticus Chapter 18 verse 22. Research dictates that this was wrote against the pagan ritual of male prostitution. It was seen as NON-Christian and therefore needed a law. I wonder when all of you who believe that I am sinning will learn to think, analyze and learn for yourselves. It's the same bunch of folks that keep spouting HATE in the name of God, in the name of Christ. God is and always will be my only Judge. John 3:16 sums it up for me....I believe in Christ, therefore I will have everlasting life! I will not let anyone take away the fact that I feel pure joy of the Lord each day I wake up. And there are many long term gay relationships right here in Lincoln. My parter and I have been together going on 10 years and many of our friends have been together twice that. I guess if we want to focus on the negative behaviors of people we will always be blinded by the positive examples around us each day. "

JR wrote on September 10, 2007 6:33 pm:

" I see absolutely no oppression of gays here in Lincoln. I work for the state which has become the mecca for the alternative lifestyle. It wouldn't be so bad if a loud minority didn't flaunt their sexuality. It appears that personnel has to bend over backwards to accommodate gays in avoid the appearance of discrimination. If you don't want to hide your sexuality, don't go overboard to advertise that your homosexuality. You can interpret the Bible anyway you want it, but a sin is a sin. Jesus instructs us to repent and sin no more. "

Pastor Scott Pape wrote on September 10, 2007 6:37 pm:

" To say we must pick and choose which scriptures are pertinent is subjective at best and sacreligious/blashemous at least. The Scripture is clear in claiming homosexuality as sin and God NEVER accepts sin. To try to counter this indictment by using a passage that was clearly only meant for the Jews is reprehensible at best (mixed cloth). As a pastor you should be well aware that God is above all Holy and homosexuality is anything but holy. If this were God's plan he would have created Adam and Steve (not Eve) and none of us would be here to even discuss how we should exercise biblical love, which, by the way, includes confrontation of sin. "

Sodom...Gomorrah wrote on September 10, 2007 6:52 pm:

" I agree that we should love the sinner and hate the sin...but homosexuality is wrong. Those in Sodom and Gomorrah who wanted a piece of the angels in Lot's house found out that God didn't plan for man to be with man. The plan was for a man and a woman. I respect your opinion, but you are wrong. "

Whody wrote on September 10, 2007 6:54 pm:

" WCG is right about the bible but at least some in the religious community are responding to gays in a more inclusive way. Those who interpret the bible as the literal word of God need to lighten up. "

Peanut wrote on September 10, 2007 8:17 pm:

" As a non-religious person, I've read and studied the Bible with an open yet objective eye. The Bible is a beautifully written book with a very simple message...Love One Another. Those who claim to take the Bible literally are either lying or in jail. When's the last time LJS reported on the prosecution of a father for stoning his disobedient child? "

whatever wrote on September 10, 2007 8:59 pm:

" You don't need an advanced degree to be a Bible Scholar, that is silly, placing man's word above that of Gods. I do think for myself and have learned a great deal by myself. To lump those who believe the homosexual lifestyle into a group of intolerant, non thinking twisted Christians is intellectually lazy, if not bankrupt. Prejudice? Umm, where did that come from. I have friends who are homosexual, they are sinners just as my promiscuous heterosexual friends are. Loving your neighbor is much different than accepting every act as sin free. Really several posters here should ponder their own prejudice and judgemental attitudes of those that dare be critical of their "beliefs". "

Geeze wrote on September 10, 2007 9:03 pm:

" I really have to use a term I rarely use and that is God Bless You Rev. Stephen Griffith. Why don't I use it? Well I find it crazy and discriminatory to follow anything that one would hold so dear that would so quickly judge anything under the sun. Especially when the Bible specifically says Judge not least you be judged as you will be judged at the harshness of others. People seem to forget that. If I wanted to live in the day the Bible was "written" I would, as a woman, certainly not be writing on this page. I'm so tired of people judging others for loving someone. That is all it is, LOVE! And to attest the idea that homosexuals can not sustain a monogomes relationship, my cousins have been together for over 20 years. That is much more that most heteros that I know. Plus, they are the most loving, generous, nondiscriminatory people I know. You should all take a page from their book because as far as I'm concerned, they are more Christian that you. They love and don't judge! "

Rolly Church wrote on September 10, 2007 10:54 pm:

" To E Jr. You wrote “And of course that happens behind closed doors.” I guess you missed the story about Senator Craig, or the news about Fort Lauderdale, Florida mayor's campaign to prevent homosexual sex in public bathrooms, or the local weatherman who was caught at a freeway rest stop. If the “homosexual lifestyle” was kept behind closed doors. . . Well who would know? "

Christine wrote on September 11, 2007 12:33 am:

" Thank you for the beautiful sentiments. If you believe in the Bible and God, then it is not your job to judge other people, but God's job, right? So why are so many people quick to judge? Our job is to love our neighbors, respect and do well by other them. It disgusts me the type of hate I see, from whatever side. "

B wrote on September 11, 2007 3:53 am:

" Thank you Rev. Griffith for being willing to take a public stand on this issue. It would have been nice if LJS would have published the names of the other 21 pastors who supported this letter. "

Wow what a article wrote on September 11, 2007 6:11 am:

" What a waste of paper to print "

Zoe wrote on September 11, 2007 6:33 am:

" Christianity is truly the religion that separates the sheep from the goats. The Old Testament is full of darkness, crusades and negativity which may have suited the time. That is why Jesus came along - to end that nonsense. I don't care a lick what Paul said, only Jesus, and Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and that the law is fulfilled in only two commandments, "Love God and love your neighbor." Case closed. Not open to human interpretation. "

Doc wrote on September 11, 2007 7:03 am:

" The government schools are worse than we thought. Now reading is obsolete. Homosexuality is a sin right up there with gossiping and gluttony. That said, almost everyone that comes out of homosexuality does so because someone cared enough to love them out. Holding up signs with Lev. 18:22 on them means nothing to homosexuals. What means something is that someone loves them enough for long enough to show the love of Christ. The past hurts maybe so deep that it will take years, but it is worth it. Jesus would say the same thing to homosexuals that He said to the woman caught in adultery. "I don't condemn you, go and sin no more." "

m wrote on September 11, 2007 7:16 am:

" so, exactly, how many sexaul orientations are there? is every sexual proclivity hard-wired? "

josh wrote on September 11, 2007 7:59 am:

" I think it is funny that "Pastor" Scott Pape comments on one of those things we no longer believe (Mixed cloth - meant only for the Jews) and seems to inply that that is the only one. I wonder if the good "pastor" forgot the one about divorce - in the New Testament - spoken by Jesus himself? But then again, I guess all those laws about divorce, re-marriage (thus adultery) don't apply to straight folks. I always wonder about those "Christians" who are so caught up on the gay quotes in the Bible and forget about the ones that should apply to their lives. Ahhh...the hypocrisy...... "

Saved wrote on September 11, 2007 9:14 am:

" Let's be sure we revisit the article and all these comments when we are fighting to SAVE THE GAY STEM CELLS "

Pastor Steve Davenport wrote on September 11, 2007 9:30 am:

" This debate centers squarely on the authority of the sacred text. The Bible is very clear that all sex outside of the marriage covenant, whether it be homosexual or heterosexual, is wrong. This isnt subject to opinion or cultural whim. For all you liberal pastors who have chosen not to accept the Bible as God's standard for the basis of morality and decency, I ask you one question, Why even bother with going to church and doing the religious thing? Without an authoritative guideline that emanates from an eternal Source, i.e. God, we might as well be ships without a sail on the very tempestuous waters of life. Thankfully, this isnt the case. Adherence to the Bible produces happiness and fulfillment as one functions within of the parameters set forth by our Creator God. We simply cant disregard those passages which secular progressives have deemed politically incorrect. "

to Zoe wrote on September 11, 2007 9:34 am:

" I think Zoe's comment might have been the smartest comment on this entire page. It makes the most sense. As a lesbian, I know for a fact that I had no horrible pain of which poster Doc speaks. I didn't think in my head, "Hmmm...boys are ok, but women are better so I think I'll sleep with women now." I didn't choose it. It just is. My "coming out" was a terrible experience, namely because of some people not too much different than a lot of posters here. I was persecuted and face that almost every day. Why would I choose that? I didn't. And "coming out" situations wouldn't exist if everyone was accepted. Gay, straight, pink or purple wouldn't make a difference. If the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, then let Jesus judge me when I die. Until then, leave me alone. I know that a lot of the alleged criterion to get to heaven is based upon the idea that you should lead people to Christ. Why would anyone want to be lead by people who are just going to judge your every move? "

Nina wrote on September 11, 2007 9:34 am:

" Amen and amen. To have a small percentage of people with different sexual orientation is the natural order God set in place. This is evident by many things: Studies that have shown brain chemical and hormone differences, the fact (which any farmer knows) that such differences are evident in the animal kingdom, etc. To castigate such people is wrong, and demeans both them and the one who judges. It always puzzles me that some church people judge others on this difference, but seem to overlook obvious sins of choice, such as judging, overimbibing, gluttony, greed, envy, etc. that may hit a little too close to home. It's quite the role to fill to be a qualified first-stone-thrower. Hold your heads up, all who are 'different' for on reason or another. We are all God's children, and many of us care for you. "

Kristine wrote on September 11, 2007 9:49 am:

" I just don't understand why the great debate. Who cares if someone is gay?? I don't. I pretty much look at people as people. Some I like, some I don't. I could care less who someone finds attractive. I just can't stand people who are self righteous and judgmental and suck to be around. Why does anyone care what people do behind closed doors, or who they do it with when we're talking about adults? Sleeping around and having illegitimate children and manipulating and raping and defiling are all horrible things, yet people focus on homosexuality. Why? Because your mind goes there. YOU think about their sex lives. I don't. So I'm not bothered. Oh, and JR, what if I flaunt MY hetero sexuality? Exactly. "

church wrote on September 11, 2007 10:04 am:

" thanks God, for Jesus CHRIST, A sin is a sin whether u like it or not... that use to work pastors as middle men Jesus's Death did away with the middle man... A PASTOR... thank God., and the Sabbath is still saturday, again thank GOD.. "

TS wrote on September 11, 2007 11:36 am:

" God doesn’t ask much of us, He asks that we love him first and love our neighbors. Instead of looking for justification for your hatred and intolerance, seek to love others as he loves us. Judgment, He holds, as His responsibility. Those of you audacious enough to believe you have the authority to judge others are surely confused. If you think you are without sin, more worthy or that you have in some way earned the grace of God then you need to do your homework. News flash --Jesus came for us “sinners.” We are all unworthy (always have been, always will be) and he forgives us and loves us any way; so get over yourselves. Just do your job and let Him do his. "

peb wrote on September 11, 2007 11:40 am:

" Do you think when Moses was writing Leviticus he was thinking, “I’ll make all of the texts apply to the Jews now, and have only Leviticus 18:22; 20:13 apply in 2007? How much sense does that make? "

rb wrote on September 11, 2007 12:20 pm:

" Anyone who thinks sex is truly only for procreation is fooling themselves. If it were, every single time a man and woman have sex a child would be made. This doesn't happen. Sex is either for love or just to get your rocks off as well as procreating. If 2 men or 2 women want to have sex, who are we to tell them they can't? Why do people who take the bible literally always trying to direct everyone else's lives? It's not homosexuals that are doing terrible things in this world, it's heterosexuals who have been held down with this belief about sex all their lives that are molesting children (priests). The catholic church is really to blame for all of the hatred in the world. If the pope would just shut his mouth and let people make their own decision without being judged by him and everyone of his "flock" the world may be a better place. There may not be terrorist's of other religions killing people in their god's name if the pope and the catholic church would not try to control every aspect of everyone's lives, catholic and non-catholic alike. All in all religion is the greatest downfall of mankind, because it is made by man. Spirituality is brought by God and his goodness. Human's just so happen to have a little thing called "freedom of choice" by God's choice. Freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Human's certainly wouldn't think something like this up, especially the catholic church. They couldn't control millions of people if they had thought up free will. "

Who Cares wrote on September 11, 2007 12:24 pm:

" First, who really cares about this. Isn't there something more important to write about. And SECOND, WHO CARES if the Sabbath is on Saturday, Sunday, Monday or whatever day it is. I am tired of the arguments. There is not ONE person writing here that has a clue! PERIOD. We spend more time trying to create controversy then just living. "

Better Yet wrote on September 11, 2007 12:34 pm:

" Instead of arguing about whether homosexuality is a sin or not.... Open all of those multimillion dollar churches on 84th street to the sick and the homeless. Bring God's children in; feed and clothe them. Help them get on their feet. Or was it the intention of God to build temples that are only open on Saturday or Sunday (depending on the interpretation) and throughout the week for some counseling and potlucks. Yet we sit here and argue whether it is okay to lay with someone of the same sex when there are people out there wondering if tonight will be the last night they will see the moon and the stars. Yet Sunday, we will collect the Tithes and Offerings, hold them before God. Separate them for building additions and improvements. Then pay for the staff. OH.... Paul never wrote about that and Peter was too busy becoming the only man to speak to God. What would Jesus do with all of those buildings..... Oh He don't care as long as we don't have people laying next to eachother of the same sex. Get over it and start moving forward. "

Thank God! wrote on September 11, 2007 12:54 pm:

" Finally, a person of the religious community that truly seems to understand the teachings of God and Jesus. I was beginning to think that these people didn't exist. "

Mormon wrote on September 11, 2007 1:00 pm:

" I am sad by the hate I see projected towards those who are homosexual and vice versa those that do not agree. My younger brother came out a few years ago and even though I do not agree with homosexuality, I still love him and his partner dearly. My religion believe homosexuality is not a choice but it also teaches that we need to love EVERYONE. It is not our place to judge others but that does not mean I can not have my own opinion about it. "

Erika VanStralen wrote on September 11, 2007 1:29 pm:

" I'm sure Rev. Griffith and the 21 other pastors mean well when they say being gay is not a sin. Just like, being a murderer is not a sin. It's the act of murder that's a sin. But, being a sinner happens to be what we all are. But do we tolerate murder? Do we tolerate the murderers who continue in their sin? No, as a community, as a country, we judge those people, moreover, their actions, as intolerable. Does that make us intolerant, unloving, disrespectful people? No. It makes us moral and fair. The Bible states many sins that God does not tolerate. Greed, lust, revenge, coveting, idolatry and even homosexuality. In fact, homosexuality is detestable to the Lord (Lev. 18:22 NIV). Just the same, God detests sex with an animal and he calls it perversion (Lev. 18:23). God detests a man having sex with his mother, his sister, aunt, sister-in-law (Leviticus 18). So just as we all would agree that incest and adultery is dishonoring to God, please put the act of homosexuality in the same boat, because the Lord God, your God, does. Each of these is a sin and if we start choosing which of these sexual sins is fine now, then soon all forms of sex with anyone will be fine, too. Then we've lost the authority of Scripture altogether. God created us male and female, husband and wife, for pro-creation and to show the way He wants it to be. Any sexual relations outside of marriage between a man and woman is sin. It's very clear in the Bible. Now, let us love one another so deeply that we will help each other, everyone lovin' one of us sinners, in a loving and forgiving manner, to leave our lives of sin (which so distances us from God) so that we can more fully live in the grace of God who loves us all and died for our sins, sexual or not, so that we might have a personal relationship with him, a life abundant in joy. "

peb wrote on September 11, 2007 2:24 pm:

" All denominations are made by man so who can say what one denomination believes is right and what another believes is wrong. Many times what one denomination believes is directly opposite of what another believes--as is obvious here. All denominations proclaim to believe what the bible says and there are as many interpretations of the bible as there are denominations. "

Think about it this way.... wrote on September 11, 2007 2:25 pm:

" The bible was written thousands of years ago, right? And that's the moral compass we all need to guide our lives, and you bible thumpers are saying we need to strictly adhere to it's guidelines, or we're all going to hell. Okay. But tell me this: would you go to a doctor that used the same information and methods that were used 2,000 years ago? Would you trust a scientist whose knowledge was limited to that of the scientists 2,000 years ago? I am not an atheist, but I have a problem with organized religion, mainly because of the ignorance and intolerance it teaches, rather than love and acceptance. I don't believe in a God that is hateful and vengeful. If that's who rules in Heaven, please reserve me the best table in hell now. By the way, Erika, the main difference between murder and homosexuality is the it doesn't hurt anyone to be gay. When was the last time you heard someone say, "well, he killed 26 people, but at least he's not GAY!" Let's compare apples to apples, okay? "

SRO wrote on September 11, 2007 4:43 pm:

" So heterosexuals NEVER have sex in a public place??? Hmmm....I think those darn heteros should stop flaunting their sexuality in our faces!!! GRRR!!! "

Nina wrote on September 11, 2007 5:22 pm:

" We could all be wrong about pegging the actual sabbath.. Actually, I read a few months ago that mathematicians made a discovery just two years ago in ancient time tables that pointed to the sabbath originally being on Tuesday. I guess God hadn't seen fit to invent the Roman calendar yet on his seventh day, that we depend upon for our own timetable. I surmise that giving God one day in seven any way you cut it would be pleasing to him. Such as done by my friend who works weekends and attends Wednesday night prayer service and bible study, because that's one of her nights off. "

Wow wrote on September 11, 2007 5:48 pm:

" Sex is meant by God to be both unitive and pro-creative. They can't be seperated and when we try to do that things get all messed up. We are not allowed to pick and choose what we would like to view as a sin. God says sex outside of marriage is wrong, period. It saddens me that pastors come out and say that it's ok. It's completely crazy to say the Bible isn't against homosexuality. It is disordered and just because people do it doesn't mean it's ok. Until 2 men or 2 women can have sex and get pregnant it's not going to be ok. That's not to say that gay people shouldn't be loved. They're completely different things. You can love the sinner but hate the sin. I was raised Methodist and this erratic liberalism is one of the main reasons I left that denomination. God means what he says and says wha he means, it's that simple. "

Joking, right? wrote on September 11, 2007 5:52 pm:

" All the chapter/verse quotes on here are a joke right? I can't believe that the general public would make such bold statements with such little knowledge on those subjects... oh... wait... this is the bible belt, all the thinking is done for you! For all you quoters out there: if you've got a problem with homosexuality, don't date another man/women and your life won't be effected by homosexuality. Maybe we should put up gay/straight water public water foutains and make gays sit in the back of the bus... that'll teach them. I've said it before on here a hundred times - think before you speak... seems like more than a few online LJS readers don't think that's such a good idea. "

Dave wrote on September 11, 2007 6:53 pm:

" Wow, and to think I've heard it all. Pastor, I'm really not following your being gay is not a sin thought process. I have nothing but love for homosexuals as God wants all sinners (including myself) to come to repentance. I'm no better than they are when it comes to sin, but to say homosexuality isn't a sin is WAY out there. "

Pastor Scott Pape wrote on September 11, 2007 7:16 pm:

" The majority of you who write in defense of the homosexual agenda have claimed that bible believing Christians are being "judgmental" when we proclaim what God's Word says is sin. I must tell you that you are not practicing what you preach, for by calling me judgmental you became judmental yourself! Both Old and New Testament alike claim homosexuality as sin. Please remember that the truth found in the Word of God is unchanging, regardless of geofraphy or era, for God Himself doesn't change. "

Pastor Scott pape wrote on September 11, 2007 8:39 pm:

" I am saddened by the blindness of those who are being deceived by satan. I tried to speak from reason but see that that simply will never do. It is time for the Scripture to speak for itself. 1 Cor. 6:9-11 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you WERE sanctified, but you WERE justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." Note the tense. We are all sinners, but when we come to Christ for salvation he changes us and we become a new creature, along with our practices. By saying Such WERE we, solidly proclaims that we can no longer be what we once were. God is clear! Those who practice such things prove themselves not to be of God. You can believe homosexuality is not a sin and slander me as a hypocrite, but in the end you will know the truth, when you stand before God, who will be your judge. I love all people by telling them the truth of salvation in Christ and seeking their best, regardless if they accept it. You can have FREEDOM from any sin you find yourself in. I pray you find the truth before you stand before the Lord in judgment and wish you would have listened before it was too late. "

Mark wrote on September 11, 2007 9:22 pm:

" People jump to a major conclusion when they emphatically state that everything in the Bible is "God's Word." That's a leap and a lie perpetuated for most of the last 2,000 years. Moses (presumably) wrote Leviticus and Paul wrote most of the New Testament. They were mere men, both of whom had agendas in their writings and teachings same as that of the church then and today, which is to control and maintain the flock by fear, guilt, intimidation and superstition. And if homosexuality is the biggest baddest boogey man, why did Christ not say word one about it? "

Dave wrote on September 12, 2007 6:56 am:

" Being Gay does not hurt anyone? Tell that to the victim that's been molested. "

To Pastor Scott: wrote on September 12, 2007 7:35 am:

" You ARE being a hypocrite, that's why people are calling you a hypocrite. For example, you said "You can believe homosexuality is not a sin and slander me as a hypocrite, but in the end you will know the truth, when you stand before God, who will be your judge." If God is our judge, then who are you to think you can take his place here on earth and judge gay people? If you are content in your knowlege that God will judge each of us when our time comes, why do you insist on stepping on His toes and doing it now? By the way, please let me know what church you belong to so I can be sure to tell all my friends, family, and neighbors to avoid it at all costs. "

Not ignorant but wrote on September 12, 2007 8:27 am:

" I am curious why the 'Christians' who insist on using their sacred text as a premise for gay-bashing refuse to respond to the other abominations such as those listed by Edgar and Rev. Griffith. They always seem to respond by ignoring them and quoting the one that supports their hatred. Inerrant word of God? Maybe, but men offered their interpretation and those who have really studied the text recognize that we have to 'pick and choose' what is relevant to today. If Christians were to focus only on the words attributed to Jesus the world would be a much better place. "

Born right the first time. wrote on September 12, 2007 9:32 am:

" If sex is only for procreation, should a couple in which one or both people are knowlingly impotent be allowed to marry or have sex? The argument against homosexuality is pretty weak, and when you have to rely on a bronze-age book of mythology to attain your bigotry you might want to rethink your ideology. "

david wrote on September 12, 2007 9:46 am:

" So where do churches stand on the intersex population -- those who were born with the physical characteristics of one or both sexes but are actually genetically the other? "

hehe wrote on September 12, 2007 10:57 am:

" Why does the Christian community think they can reinterpret a Jewish book written by Jews for Jews centuries ago? "

Ryan wrote on September 12, 2007 11:23 am:

" WHOA! Did I just read a comment implying that gay sex includes molestation and/or 'victims'? Did we forget how many sexual assaults are from straight people? I don't even know what to say to a comment to ignorant. "

Nina wrote on September 12, 2007 11:45 am:

" You're confusing the issue. When it comes to molesters, a certain small number are gay. But a much larger number are fathers, brothers, uncles, neighbors, parents' friends, etc. Read the stats and get the facts. It cannot be denied that an overwhelming number of molestations are committed by heterosexuals. "

Gay Christian wrote on September 12, 2007 12:26 pm:

" The word homosexual was put into the bible by man. In the original language before translation there was no such word. Let us not forget that Constantine and his cronies edited the text of the bible to perpetuate their own agenda during the start of the Holy Roman Empire over 1200 years ago. Some of the text can never be recovered. It was a time during Justinian rule where his own agenda created words of hate based on same sex love. He probably had his own homosexual issues and would rather transfer hatred onto others instead of looking in the mirror. Christ never once discusses or mentions the word homosexual. It is man with all his own interpretation of morality and free will that propagate this HATE. I am appalled that all those interpretations of the original text would place me in the same category as a murderer, molester, etc. I have no fear because I know I am right with God. God created me in his image and God loves me. I am one of his chosen to teach tolerance, acceptance and love. Homosexuality is not about sex! It is about loving another person. "

Oh, Dave wrote on September 12, 2007 12:44 pm:

" Insinuating that all homosexuals are child molestors? I think we've passed ignorance and gone straight to outright stupidity. I have never in my life heard anything so blatantly ridiculous! And I have to wonder, for all of you on here so boldly bashing gays, would you have the guts to stick to your "convictions" if this were a face-to-face discussion? "

judgemental wrote on September 12, 2007 1:13 pm:

" I was raised in a large city where there was much more diversity that what Lincoln has (and Lincoln has a lot) but in the church I attended we were taught not to judge others. When life is over for us it's not these people with their closed minded opinions that will matter it will be the person and THEIR relationship with God or whomever they wish to acknowledge as their Lord. What scares me is my children and grandchildren exposed to this hatred for someone different whether is be race, religion or whom they do choose to love. I say love and faith are personal and private and we have no right to say what is right or wrong. I am happy to see this Man of God speak out but some of these comments are so wrong and those who don't believe need a eye opening experience to realize there is a GOD and HE does decide our fate. "

Rae wrote on September 12, 2007 2:21 pm:

" When as a church did we decide to choose and pick what we wanted to believe in the bible ? So if having sex outside of marriage is not a sin-- what are we as a church going to condone next? Stealing other people's property? Murder? Have idols? Having sex with someone elses spouse? There are two issues and subjects here -- and we need to separate them out. One is what the scripture says about having sex with the same sex, ones own family- or outside of marriage. Scripture is abundant on here.........and you dont have to be a minister to know and read the word of God. I dont have to interpret the word of God- it stands all on its own. Secondly, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. I am a sinner. There is not a pecking order for sin. If a gay has sex with his partner, his sin is no greater than me having sex with someone outside of marriage. Nor is his sin any greater than the professed man of God who beats on his wife. No where is the bible do I see that sin is rated.. so why do we continue to "go there?" why does the church get caught up in these social issues of homosexuality, abortion etc. We need to get the log out of our own eye first-- continue to stand firm on the truth according to God's word- and love our neighbor !!! We dont have to condone a sin - to embrace a person and do the work of Jesus Christ. We dont have to judge or condemn- that's God job. Onward brothers and sisters in Christ. Continue to stand firm on the word of God. Embrace all people of this community, encouraging them to grow in a relationship with Jesus Christ.....regardless of their sin. Satan is trying to divide us...........dont you see it?? "

Interesting Facts wrote on September 12, 2007 2:48 pm:

" The word "homosexual" was not used until 1868 and was coined by a German man. So if you were to get a hold of a King James version of the Bible that was copyrighted before 1868, the word homosexual would not be there. AND King James is purported to have been gay. "

Jack wrote on September 12, 2007 3:39 pm:

" I always find iteresting how so many hateful words are uttered by those prolcaiming to be Christians. I'm also constantly amazed at how often these Christians blatently ignore certain writings while embracing others (and that point has been made here over and over by some thoughtful posters). But I would like to know one thing from Dave and Pastor Scott pape and anyone else quoting Leviticus: Do you believe in the punishment called for in the bible for gay men (not lesbians, as I see no reference to them)? Do you believe they should be executed? If not, where in the bible does it allow you to sway from that clear command? "

Nina wrote on September 12, 2007 5:11 pm:

" The Lord's ways are not our ways, says the bible. I think we're all going to be a sheepish bunch when we get to heaven and find the only thing we could not misinterpret is God's love for us all. "

I wish... wrote on September 12, 2007 5:43 pm:

" that those who condemen homosexuality so eager by using the scripture, would actually take the time to study the bible historically. It's not the word of God, it's been edited and reedited for two thousand years and counting. Also Jesus had no problems with homosexuality. As a matter of fact he healed a centurion's gay lover who was sick and dying. And he also welcomes eunuchs, which include castrated males and gay men. Matthew 19:12 says "for there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb" whom, yep sounds indeed sounds like a choice and that Jesus doesn't accept homosexuals for who they are...not "

Tree-hugging Dirt-worshiper wrote on September 12, 2007 5:58 pm:

" Once again, I must remind you that the bible went through a 1500+ year editing process BEFORE the invention of the printing press. It was written by human men and hand copied over and over again by human men. Each man who copied it and/or translated it put his own slant, added, deleted, etc. (i.e. King James) So to apply what is written in it today to all people, believers and non-believers is asinine! The bible is Literature!!! Poems, stories, fables, myths, parables.....literature. Yes it may contain some truths, but so do Aesop's Fables....yet no one in their right mind claims that ants and grasshoppers chat about the weather. But go ahead, believe what you want to believe.....but leave the rest of us alone, please and thank you. "

Mr. Bee wrote on September 12, 2007 6:47 pm:

" I am proud to count Steve Griffith as a friend. He is an honorable human being who is serving God by perceiving the intent of Christ as Christ enumerated his two new commandments. "

DP wrote on September 12, 2007 10:01 pm:

" Just think when we have all passed on and are either in heaven or hell we will be saying "so that was the right answer." There will be so many answers to these questions we have in this world. "

Keith wrote on September 12, 2007 10:18 pm:

" I'm amazed at the people who sarcastically respond about you "picking and choosing" what you want from scripture. In their fear and denial, folks like staceyv, whatever, and Dave remain under the delusion that they follow all the tenants of scripture. What will it take to get them to face the idea that they themselves have cherry picked those Biblical passages that support their world view while ignoring other passages? The bible read literally just doesn't add up, too many condradictions. If you think it does, then you haven't read it. Take two testaments and call me in the morning. "

Mullah Mike wrote on September 13, 2007 7:15 am:

" Wow, just look at all the Christian love on this page. It sounds more like a Taliban meeting. "

skippy wrote on September 13, 2007 8:43 am:

" I think that it's pretty clear what the Bible says about this subject as well as other sins that are committed. Homosexuality, Fornication, Lying, Stealing, etc., are all sins in the eyes of God. That's why Jesus came and died. These "pastors" are heretical teachers who are leading others astray which of course the Bible also tells us will happen. They should be sharing with their people that a relationships with Jesus Christ is the only way to break the bondage of sin, and He is the only hope for this sin-sick world. "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths"--2 Timothy 4:3,4 "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn."--Isaiah 8:20 "

Oh good lord! wrote on September 13, 2007 10:14 am:

" If we're about what Jesus Christ preached, then why don't we just stick to what he did in fact say and preach? Not the words of Timothy or Paul but hmm just Jesus himself. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. "

oh no you didn't! wrote on September 13, 2007 2:30 pm:

" Not for one second, will I pause to read an ignorant, IGNORANT statement saying that homosexuals are molestors and not respond. That is beyond ignorant. Somebody--give me a word stronger than ignorant! You embarrass me. And you have issues. "

Dave wrote on September 13, 2007 5:14 pm:

" Help me out people,what are men that have molested or have sex with young boys! I said they were gay and alot of people are upset,so set me straight. "

kh wrote on September 13, 2007 6:50 pm:

" If we all look deep within our spiritual nature, we to can love one another unconditionaly without judgement as Jesus Christ did. "

Methodist Church Policy wrote on September 13, 2007 9:17 pm:

" Regarding the General Council on Finance and Administration ¶806.9 [The General Council on Finance and Administration of The United Methodist Church] shall be responsible for ensuring that no board, agency, committee, commission, or council shall give United Methodist funds to any gay caucus or group, or otherwise use such funds to promote the acceptance of homosexuality. The council shall have the right to stop such expenditures. This restriction shall not limit the Church’s ministry in response to the HIV epidemic. (From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church - 2004. Copyright 2004 by The United Methodist Publishing House "

Well . . . wrote on September 13, 2007 9:27 pm:

" the Methodist church ads I see on TV say "Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors." They don't say "Open Hearts except for homosexuality, Open Minds except for homosexuality, Open Doors except for homosexuality." "

Response to Dave wrote on September 14, 2007 7:33 am:

" Grown men who want sex with little boys does not necessarily make them gay. It makes them pedophiles. Pedophiles usually see children as objects, completely asexual. They don't see boy or girl, they see opportunity. Besides, how many of these pedophiles have a wife and children of their own? I will freely admit that there are gay pedophiles. But to to make the assumption that ALL homosexuals are pedophiles is quite a stretch. If you would take the time to research, you would find that this is an antiquated way of thinking. Check out the following website (if you are open enough to read something different from what you spout): http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html "

Sylvia wrote on September 14, 2007 7:54 am:

" Thank you pastor Griffith, a little respect is all any of us expect. To the people who can't respect the gay/lesbian community: have fun eating your shellfish, it too, is an abomination on the same level as when a "man lies with a man". "

Mullah Mike wrote on September 14, 2007 8:52 am:

" Does being straight hurt anyone, Dave? If you say no, then try telling that to the children that have been molested, and the women that have been raped. So before you remove the speck from someone else's eye, take that log out of your own eye. "

we all should follow wrote on September 14, 2007 12:11 pm:

" The Golden Rule: "Treat others as you would want to be treated." This doesn't mean treat others that are not gay, or that are of a different race or have different beliefs than you. By others, it means every last one of us. I do believe that is the message the Rev. is try to send here. This message also does not pertain to any organized religion or culture, it's just matter of fact. As I read through some of these comments, I am sick to my stomach how you all treat each other and sadly you probably don't even know each other except through comments on here. Again I say....treat others as you would want to be treated. May be then the world would be a little bit better place. Just a thought... "

Nina wrote on September 14, 2007 12:44 pm:

" Dave, I and other commentors already told you how your assumptions about sexual predators and being gay is confused and wrong, before your post asking for explanation. So you might wish to start back at the beginning of the comments to see. Molesters are (besides being sexual predators) pedophiles, rapers, perpetrators of crime, etc. - and are mostly by numbers heterosexual, and a good share of them were molested as children themselves. "

Rev. Martha Voigt wrote on September 17, 2007 11:15 am: